Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc - Page 19 - MensTennisForums.com

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post #271 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 08:31 PM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by tektonac View Post
your happiness makes me happy too.


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Originally Posted by itsmeagain View Post
The eyes are on novak at the moment. The sky news segment on his match was introduced with "novak refused to answer questions about recovery"......

I think he is legally clean and just doing old school methods but I dont know. If there is a doping list and some new variant that is not on it - "legally" you can take it.

I just wish he replaced the word legally with morally. I'm a brit - You gotta win fair. lol
I agree with everything you posted. Exactly, I mean MTF and the mods are very finicky about accusing players of doping etc. So I won't say anything on that but I will say that it's one thing to make these comments during your career and another after you have retired. Who knows what may or may not come to light in the future?

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Originally Posted by BauerAlmeida View Post
Few players on tour are as solid from both wings as Djokovic. He has amazing ground-strokes and can play offensive tennis. He is not like Ferrer whose game is 95% grinding. So no, he will not retire before 30.

He doesn't fake injuries. He had a lot of problems early in his career. And the methods aren't unfair if they're not banned. Every player can use them. Unlike Armstrong blood doping and EPO. Those were banned.
LOL. Oh c'mon he's a counter puncher stop it. Stop trying to be one of those posters that needs to convince everyone that Novak has this well rounded miracle game.

He retrieves and he takes offense when he gets an opportune shot. I will say he's slightly more offensive minded that Rafa but he's by no means a shot maker.

Don't be ashamed of your favorite's play style and don't be disillusioned he's not Federer.

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Originally Posted by Han Solo View Post
It's rather unfair of Sky here to target Djokovic just because he prefers his training methods to be kept private.


But it's great that the issue of doping in tennis is finally getting some exposure.


Yea, no comment.

The persons in charge of tennis don't want doping to be discovered. There's too much money at stake. Doping exists and possibly some top players do it. Until a top guy comes out and confesses/whistle blows the others I doubt we will know about it. It's probably the one way, ITF...ATP...the Slams...they don't want to uncover anything. It would be an embarrassment and a loss of revenue big time!

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Anyone who says any player has no chance against Dolgopolov is clearly trolling.
That's the gospel.
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post #272 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 08:39 PM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Every post on a tennis forum about doping adds to the pressure on the ITF/ATP etc to pull their finger out and start taking proper responsibility rather than treat it as a problem that can be managed purely as a public relations exercise.
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post #273 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 08:45 PM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Now they need to re-examine Armstrong's moon landing, because, as they say: "once a cheat, always a cheat."
The guy walked the moon, won 7 tour de france and was one of the best jazz musicians of all time.

It was obvious he was into something.

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Fuck you. This ain't no God damn hobby, motherfucker.
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post #274 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 09:28 PM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by itsmeagain View Post
The eyes are on novak at the moment. The sky news segment on his match was introduced with "novak refused to answer questions about recovery"......

I think he is legally clean and just doing old school methods but I dont know. If there is a doping list and some new variant that is not on it - "legally" you can take it.

I just wish he replaced the word legally with morally. I'm a brit - You gotta win fair. lol
If he had said "morally" people might have misinterpreted it as being not legal. 'Morally' is subjective. Some people have commited murders and claim that they were morally justified.

So Novak wanted to make sure that his answer was the he wasn't breaking any rules, that everything he did was above board in an objective sense.

I think the News Sports segment that you're referring to is shocking: it's the usual anti-Novak nuance taht has been around since I've been following Novak, in 2005.

All athletes keep their training and recovery routines secret: they don't want to give any advantages to their adversaries. But the way it was phrased (according to what you posted, I didn't hear it) makes it sound as if Novak should have answered and refused to, typical.

People keep talking about Novak's "sudden" transformation, as if he came from nowhere. He was he #3 player for 4 straight years, and in 2010 he was ranked #2 for half the year (although nobody mentioned that fact, except me on several forums ) Then he made his final push and became the #1. If people were surprised, it's because instead of watching tennis, they just read about it.

I wonder what will happen if Roger beats Andy after a tough 5-setter, at the age of 31, not 25. Will they grill him about his recovery?

Andy himself has taken fitness to another level, yet nobody, as far as I know, has accused him of doping. Lendl himself, when he was a player, transformed himself into an unbeatable robot... No questions there either.

As they shouldn't be, there's no evidence. To single out Nole is unfair, in my opinion.

Testing should be improved, or made more frequent, or whatever would make people feel better. But innuendoes and accusations without evidence are definitely not on, in my book.

NOVAK DJOKOVIC
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post #275 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 10:17 PM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Just as well your book doesn't rule the roost then. Armstrong is proof that the proof you insist on is meaningless. With him there wasn't any proof either. 500 tests, was it, he passed?

What proof do you require when players know how to flout doping tests? It's not an easy question to answer.
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post #276 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 10:19 PM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Yolita View Post
If he had said "morally" people might have misinterpreted it as being not legal. 'Morally' is subjective. Some people have commited murders and claim that they were morally justified.

So Novak wanted to make sure that his answer was the he wasn't breaking any rules, that everything he did was above board in an objective sense.

I think the News Sports segment that you're referring to is shocking: it's the usual anti-Novak nuance taht has been around since I've been following Novak, in 2005.

All athletes keep their training and recovery routines secret: they don't want to give any advantages to their adversaries. But the way it was phrased (according to what you posted, I didn't hear it) makes it sound as if Novak should have answered and refused to, typical.

People keep talking about Novak's "sudden" transformation, as if he came from nowhere. He was he #3 player for 4 straight years, and in 2010 he was ranked #2 for half the year (although nobody mentioned that fact, except me on several forums ) Then he made his final push and became the #1. If people were surprised, it's because instead of watching tennis, they just read about it.

I wonder what will happen if Roger beats Andy after a tough 5-setter, at the age of 31, not 25. Will they grill him about his recovery?

Andy himself has taken fitness to another level, yet nobody, as far as I know, has accused him of doping. Lendl himself, when he was a player, transformed himself into an unbeatable robot... No questions there either.

As they shouldn't be, there's no evidence. To single out Nole is unfair, in my opinion.

Testing should be improved, or made more frequent, or whatever would make people feel better. But innuendoes and accusations without evidence are definitely not on, in my book.
They single him out because he's the number 1 player, it goes with the job.



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post #277 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 10:19 PM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

We know tennis has lots of doping, because Fuentes said he had 40 tennis players on his books.

Unsurprisingly, the testing hasn't caught any of them - as expected, given we have pretty much the weakest antidoping in all of sport.
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post #278 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 10:32 PM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

What's wrong with doping ?
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post #279 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 12:46 AM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

40 on Fuentes list :/

Eufemiano Fuentes

“I worked with cyclists but also footballers, boxers, tennis players and athletes,”


For Posterity

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I honestly don't think Brown has much of a chance at all, think he might get a set at best though.
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post #280 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 01:02 AM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Yolita View Post
If he had said "morally" people might have misinterpreted it as being not legal. 'Morally' is subjective. Some people have commited murders and claim that they were morally justified.

So Novak wanted to make sure that his answer was the he wasn't breaking any rules, that everything he did was above board in an objective sense.

I think the News Sports segment that you're referring to is shocking: it's the usual anti-Novak nuance taht has been around since I've been following Novak, in 2005.

All athletes keep their training and recovery routines secret: they don't want to give any advantages to their adversaries. But the way it was phrased (according to what you posted, I didn't hear it) makes it sound as if Novak should have answered and refused to, typical.

People keep talking about Novak's "sudden" transformation, as if he came from nowhere. He was he #3 player for 4 straight years, and in 2010 he was ranked #2 for half the year (although nobody mentioned that fact, except me on several forums ) Then he made his final push and became the #1. If people were surprised, it's because instead of watching tennis, they just read about it.

I wonder what will happen if Roger beats Andy after a tough 5-setter, at the age of 31, not 25. Will they grill him about his recovery?

Andy himself has taken fitness to another level, yet nobody, as far as I know, has accused him of doping. Lendl himself, when he was a player, transformed himself into an unbeatable robot... No questions there either.

As they shouldn't be, there's no evidence. To single out Nole is unfair, in my opinion.

Testing should be improved, or made more frequent, or whatever would make people feel better. But innuendoes and accusations without evidence are definitely not on, in my book.
You mention 2010, maybe you remember this match:

[youtube]gf78O2Se2cY[/youtube]

besides the obvious, it's interesting that his serving problem has gone away, which he originally changed because he had a poor motion which made him use extra energy. Guess he just has extra energy to spare with his new diet.
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post #281 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 01:29 AM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Yolita View Post
I wonder what will happen if Roger beats Andy after a tough 5-setter, at the age of 31, not 25. Will they grill him about his recovery?
I actually do hope Federer will be asked often about drug testing so he, in his capacity as ATP players president, can push for more stringent testings.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yolita View Post
Testing should be improved, or made more frequent, or whatever would make people feel better. But innuendoes and accusations without evidence are definitely not on, in my book.
Testing will never improve if public, players, coaches, associations, etc do not demand or even talk about it.
The chinese swimmers would never have been caught in the mid-late 90s had other swimmers and coaches were not talking about them.
There were so much innuendos and accusations against Armstrong, and yes it helped, because tehy put so much pressure on UCI or in this case USADA or WADA to take more drastic actions.
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post #282 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-24-2013, 01:14 PM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yolita View Post
If he had said "morally" people might have misinterpreted it as being not legal. 'Morally' is subjective. Some people have commited murders and claim that they were morally justified.

So Novak wanted to make sure that his answer was the he wasn't breaking any rules, that everything he did was above board in an objective sense.

I think the News Sports segment that you're referring to is shocking: it's the usual anti-Novak nuance taht has been around since I've been following Novak, in 2005.

All athletes keep their training and recovery routines secret: they don't want to give any advantages to their adversaries. But the way it was phrased (according to what you posted, I didn't hear it) makes it sound as if Novak should have answered and refused to, typical.

People keep talking about Novak's "sudden" transformation, as if he came from nowhere. He was he #3 player for 4 straight years, and in 2010 he was ranked #2 for half the year (although nobody mentioned that fact, except me on several forums ) Then he made his final push and became the #1. If people were surprised, it's because instead of watching tennis, they just read about it.

As someone following Djokovic since 2005 you'd know about the reputation he gathered for being unfit due to his high profile retirements for "breathing problems" and constant MTO antics in 5 setters.

That's the transformation people talk about.

It could be a psychological transformation as much as anything else. He's grown up a bit, cut out some of the gamesmanship and sorted out some problems that were mostly in his head.
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post #283 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-25-2013, 01:56 AM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by SliceAce View Post
You mention 2010, maybe you remember this match:

[youtube]gf78O2Se2cY[/youtube]

besides the obvious, it's interesting that his serving problem has gone away, which he originally changed because he had a poor motion which made him use extra energy. Guess he just has extra energy to spare with his new diet.
That's actually incorrect. If you watch Nole in 2007, for instance, when he defeated Federer in the Canada Masters final, he served really easily and well. Then Nole had a minor injury and in order to protect the shoulder he changed his serving motion. That was a mistake and he acquired bad habits. Then he hired Todd Martin who really messed up his serving, once Todd Martin was gone, he relearned his serving motion. It was very gradual: it started by tossing the ball a little higher in the beginning. It's nothing to do with strength or energy.

I was there, suffering in 2009, when Nole hit more double faults than aces.

I guess you will see what you want to see. Maybe he has found a drug that helps him keep his nerves to save MP after MP.

But I wonder why he didn't dope for the USO final, when he clearly lost because his legs gave p, having had to play 3 days in a row. Surely that match was important enough to desevre a good dose.

NOVAK DJOKOVIC
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post #284 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-25-2013, 03:40 AM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

No drug helped the 2003-2006 players, but Fed fans need to ridicule the top 2 slam opponents who are two of the best of all time. Murray embarrassed Federer at age 19-20 and he has only a slam overall.
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post #285 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 06:26 AM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

poor Armstrong.

realy.

Nadal "Sampras, Ivanisevic match. or one between those kind of players, is not enjoyable. It's not really tennis. it is a few swings of the racquet. For me in the past it was just serve. serve". arrogance.

clay excluded. successive win 0.  If grass and a hard are fast. Like Sampras era. Nadal is able to win only with clay. power of defense and muscles. boring ugly. All the surface is slow now.

fake time-out. cheat. gamesmanship. too noisy annoying always. excuse. boycotts threatened. always dissatisfaction cry complaints. dissatisfaction to schedule. selfish two-year ranking. bump to player. ugly protest. always exaggerated appeal of self condition. etc. overrated by fanatic arrogant blind fan
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