Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc - Page 18 - MensTennisForums.com

 1Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #256 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-22-2013, 09:33 PM
Registered User
 
Saberq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,983
                     
Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serverer View Post
And everyone isnt doping on the same level either. Those that have the most money can buy the best doctors/drugs.
steroids are cheap dude..........for those guys they can buy anything...
Saberq is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #257 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-22-2013, 09:34 PM
Registered User
 
Purple Rainbow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: BoL
Age: 35
Posts: 6,782
                     
Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serverer View Post
And everyone isnt doping on the same level either. Those that have the most money can buy the best doctors/drugs.
True that as well.
And it helps to have an infrastructure in place where you can transport frozen blood across a continent and get advance warnings on doping controls.

17 (yes, yes, yes!) Slams! And counting....
Purple Rainbow is offline  
post #258 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-22-2013, 09:52 PM
-LIFETIME SCIENTIST-
 
redshift36188's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Age: 30
Posts: 7,567
                     
Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
I'll have to go a little scientific here, but essentially what EPO does is it increases the hematocrit value of the blood, which is the percentage of red blood cells. Since red blood cells are essential in the oxygen uptake of the body, which is crucial in endurance sports.
So what blood vector doping does, it gives a larger performance boost to athletes with a low hematocrit value. Athletes with naturally high levels of hematocrit (in a more innocent time, we might have called them innocent) have very little to gain by blood vector doping.
But is the doping putting the "low" guys at a superior level than the naturally "high" guys or just at the same level?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Rainbow View Post
You're looking at it the wrong way around. It's not those that matter that are doing it, rather you only know the cyclist who dope heavily, because those who race clean finish in the pack (or never got a chance to become pro).
And that's not really fair, is it?
That's true, but being biologically superior is not fair either.

redshift36188 is offline  
post #259 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-22-2013, 09:55 PM
Not exactly average.
 
erickmartins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Coventry
Age: 30
Posts: 1,036
                     
Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by redshift36188 View Post
That's true, but being biologically superior is not fair either.
So you presume there's only fairness in sport when it's between identical twins? Sport is about being naturally gifted, but also about hard work and accomplishment. Doping goes against everything I mentioned.

TT Palmarès

Titles: Astana 2 CH '11, Challenger Tour Finals '11, Kuala Lumpur '12 (w/Dudisela75), Bressuire Futures '13 (w/Marita)

Finals: Fürth CH '11, Orleans CH '11, Petange CH '12, TT Euro '12 (w/Vilnietè)

SF: Australian Open '12, Memphis '12
erickmartins is offline  
post #260 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-22-2013, 10:13 PM
-LIFETIME SCIENTIST-
 
redshift36188's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Age: 30
Posts: 7,567
                     
Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by erickmartins View Post
So you presume there's only fairness in sport when it's between identical twins? Sport is about being naturally gifted, but also about hard work and accomplishment. Doping goes against everything I mentioned.
I think these days doping alone is not enough, you need the hard work as well.


My point is that there is no fairness in sports, as in any competitive system, only in small groups.


So I rather put the emphasis on what the doping does to the quality of the sport. In cycling I think it improves, in tennis it decreases as it favors grinding over skilled play.

redshift36188 is offline  
post #261 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-22-2013, 10:57 PM
Registered User
 
Trollicki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,616
                     
Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiebreak100 View Post
Bbc 5 live just did a small segment on possible doping in tennis. They had a guy on from the tennis anti doping agency who said they hope to possibly introduce blood passports by the end of 2013. Good interview, they pressed the guy on a few areas of concern. A link should be available later.
This I found extremely interesting. Does someone have a link of this interview?
Trollicki is offline  
post #262 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 12:28 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 13,139
                     
Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by tektonac View Post
even worse, it makes you an idiot.
If thinking Djoker is a punk and Lance is still a hero regardless of his admission of taking performance enhancing drugs which, the entire tour was taking along with him...then eh, I'm happy to be an idiot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Rainbow View Post
Prior to working with doctor Ferrari, Armstrong raced the Tour four times and managed to finish only once (just inside the top 50).
Cleanish (he wasn't blood doping yet before his cancer, buth did all the steroids, epo, hgh and testosterone) he was an average cyclist.



Are you really unaware of how Armstrong scammed the cancer community by creating a separate, for-profit company using the Livestrong name and logo??

Here's some reading material:

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor....html?page=all

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/14/sp...anted=all&_r=0



Whatever argument you were trying to make, you lost when you didn't use the word liar when you called Lance the greatest.




Shame, all that time waste reading about Binda, Coppi, Bartali, Merckx, Anquetil, de Vlaeminck, Hinault.
All that time watching the Giro, Paris-Roubaix, Tour of Flanders, Omloop het Volk...

I could have just gotten all my cycling knowledge from the Toronto Sun like you.



And a clue to you, stick to what you know.
I know all I need to know. After years of following sports of every type, I know a hater when I see one. You are blind hater, you probably were so pissed when Lance broke the TDF record to become cyclings GOAT.

Now you are just spewing up all the hatred and angst you've had built up over the past decade and a half.

Quote:
Originally Posted by janko05 View Post
Touche
If this was a fencing match, it would have been long decided in my favor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJules View Post
Armstrong is now a ZERO Tour de France winner and rightly removed from the cycling record books. He is cyclings answer to Ben Johnston. Many believed in the man and now realise he was a false idol whose achievements were fueled by drugs.
Eh not really a fair comparison. It wasn't like every sprinter was taking performance enhancers whereas on the tour they were...making it an even playing field. Thus, I would say Armstongs achievements stand, even if the record books have erased them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJules View Post
Love the comedy.
I try to spice up my ramblings with humor, also gifs from time to time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BauerAlmeida View Post
LOL

Novak will be an all-time great by the time he retires. He is only 25.

Armstrong doped and Djokovic didn't. Small difference .
LOL - and people are calling me biased and crazy. Novak will retire before 30, he can't take the punishment that playing his style forces him to bear.

No Djoker just fakes injuries and etc. as methods to gain unfair advantages in matches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leng jai View Post
Anyone who says any player has no chance against Dolgopolov is clearly trolling.
That's the gospel.
Fumus is offline  
post #263 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 12:37 AM
Slacker
 
Time Violation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mount Sharp
Age: 37
Posts: 15,514
                     
Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Lol, you hit the rock bottom and started to dig... happy digging I guess

“There’s so many athletes, tennis players around the world,” he continued, trying to put his life into some kind of perspective, “they want to be the best in what they do. They want to succeed. Many of them, they don’t succeed in the end. I’m fortunate to have this opportunity and succeed.”
Time Violation is offline  
post #264 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 01:04 AM
Registered User
 
tektonac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,307
                     
Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fumus View Post
If thinking Djoker is a punk and Lance is still a hero regardless of his admission of taking performance enhancing drugs which, the entire tour was taking along with him...then eh, I'm happy to be an idiot.
your happiness makes me happy too.

ASI Director-General Gautam Sengupta said the list of India's treasures held abroad was "too long to handle" and there was a need for a "diplomatic and legal campaign" for their restitution from institutions, including the British Museum, the Royal Collection and the Birmingham Museum and Art Gallery.
tektonac is offline  
post #265 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 01:12 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 20
 
Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

The eyes are on novak at the moment. The sky news segment on his match was introduced with "novak refused to answer questions about recovery"......

I think he is legally clean and just doing old school methods but I dont know. If there is a doping list and some new variant that is not on it - "legally" you can take it.

I just wish he replaced the word legally with morally. I'm a brit - You gotta win fair. lol
itsmeagain is offline  
post #266 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 01:12 AM
Registered User
 
BauerAlmeida's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Argentina
Age: 24
Posts: 5,515
                     
Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fumus View Post




LOL - and people are calling me biased and crazy. Novak will retire before 30, he can't take the punishment that playing his style forces him to bear.

No Djoker just fakes injuries and etc. as methods to gain unfair advantages in matches.
Few players on tour are as solid from both wings as Djokovic. He has amazing ground-strokes and can play offensive tennis. He is not like Ferrer whose game is 95% grinding. So no, he will not retire before 30.

He doesn't fake injuries. He had a lot of problems early in his career. And the methods aren't unfair if they're not banned. Every player can use them. Unlike Armstrong blood doping and EPO. Those were banned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Groove View Post
Fuck you. This ain't no God damn hobby, motherfucker.
BauerAlmeida is offline  
post #267 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 02:25 AM
Registered User
 
Han Solo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Age: 39
Posts: 2,346
                     
Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trollicki View Post
This I found extremely interesting. Does someone have a link of this interview?
The interview is with Stuart Miller, the Executive Director of ITF's Science and Technical Department - basically the head of ITF's anti-doping programme.


I posted it in the other doping thread here, but for ease of reference I'll post it here as well:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01q1g66

Tennis section starts at 5.30. Interview with Miller at 9.20. Enjoy his rather unconvincing answers to some probing questions!
Han Solo is offline  
post #268 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 02:28 AM
Registered User
 
Han Solo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Age: 39
Posts: 2,346
                     
Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsmeagain View Post
The eyes are on novak at the moment. The sky news segment on his match was introduced with "novak refused to answer questions about recovery"......

I think he is legally clean and just doing old school methods but I dont know. If there is a doping list and some new variant that is not on it - "legally" you can take it.

I just wish he replaced the word legally with morally. I'm a brit - You gotta win fair. lol
It's rather unfair of Sky here to target Djokovic just because he prefers his training methods to be kept private.

But it's great that the issue of doping in tennis is finally getting some exposure.
Han Solo is offline  
post #269 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 05:32 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,213
                     
Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Han Solo View Post
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01q1g66

Tennis section starts at 5.30. Interview with Miller at 9.20. Enjoy his rather unconvincing answers to some probing questions!
They didn't even ask him at all about the two biggest weaknesses in tennis testing: no testing on slam off days, that allow people to dope in tournament with zero risk, and the almost complete lack of out-of-competition testing.

The ITF loves to quote the total number of tests it makes, but almost all are in-competition, ie useless. As Armstrong said, those hold no fear at all for the doper (because they know the timing and can thus make sure there's nothing in their systems to test positive for).

Cycling in the middle of last decade was in the same situation tennis is now, and had realised that for out-of-competition testing to work at all, it needed to have enormous volume (they do over 30x as many as tennis). I think possibly the ITF is making that same transition - Nadal has said he had 4 out of comp tests last month, and Seppi had 3. The norm in previous seasons has been an average under 1.0 per year.
philosophicalarf is offline  
post #270 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-23-2013, 06:05 AM
Registered User
 
zcess81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 36
Posts: 3,035
                     
Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Now they need to re-examine Armstrong's moon landing, because, as they say: "once a cheat, always a cheat."

Novak Djokovic Rafael Nadal


David Ferrer - Leyton Hewitt - David Nalbandian - Marcos Baghdatis - Janko Tipsarevic - Tommy Haas


AJDE NOLE!
zcess81 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the MensTennisForums.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome