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post #166 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 10:31 PM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

This Fumus guy is really a lost cause .


The "Who plays tennis?" thread


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post #167 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 10:42 PM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Litotes View Post
Then you know precious little about cycling. Merckx won eleven Grand Tours - eleven is better than seven, in much the same way seven Wimbledons by a tennis player with nothing to back them up wouldn't beat Borg's eleven. Plus, Merckx has 22 wins in the biggest one-day races, the monuments (19) plus the world championships (3), compared to Armstrong's one - the WC 1993. Merckx is so much better it is no surprise there were room for several others in between, such as Coppi, Hinault, Anquetil, Bartali, Gilmondi, Kelly....
Yeah, this. Merckx won everything there is to win in cycling. And most of his Grand Tours he won multiple jerseys - not just the yellow but also the green and very often the polka dot as well. He was a freak of nature.

I don't think there's any other sport with a GOAT as undisputed as Merckx is in cycling.
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post #168 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 10:42 PM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by pierricbross View Post
Almost every world famous althete is raising millions for cancer/starving kids/poor families/other diseases etc. That doesn't make it any less fantastic, but it doesn't excuse Lance Armstrong from criticism either (even if he was the only one), neither does 'oh everyone else doped!!!'.
Yes it does.

If we all get a +2, then it's not an advantage anymore.

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Originally Posted by Taejin View Post
Lol, if anyone is pompous that would be you, can't even grasp simple facts As for the charity:
I keep giving simple facts and I keep hearing Lance is evil because he doped and Novak is right. C'mon seriously, grow up.

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Originally Posted by Lee View Post
I can see clearly that you only want to see what you see.
I only want to see what I see? Everyone has their own perspective on things, it's an opinion.

I also think red is the best color in the world. Just sayin'

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this post is wrong on so many levels
Oh and...you need help.Seriously.
Cool, I also can type nonsense and insults. bla bla bla.

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Originally Posted by Litotes View Post
Then you know precious little about cycling. Merckx won eleven Grand Tours - eleven is better than seven, in much the same way seven Wimbledons by a tennis player with nothing to back them up wouldn't beat Borg's eleven. Plus, Merckx has 22 wins in the biggest one-day races, the monuments (19) plus the world championships (3), compared to Armstrong's one - the WC 1993. Merckx is so much better it is no surprise there were room for several others in between, such as Coppi, Hinault, Anquetil, Bartali, Gilmondi, Kelly....
http://www.torontosun.com/2013/01/16...who-ever-lived


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Originally Posted by LleytonMonfils View Post
To be fair hardly if any of the $ raised went to cancer research

And a hero doesn't ruins people's lives and collect millions of dollars constantly trying to cover up a lie. Lance is no hero.
WTF!? Yes it went to his pocket and he bought conflict diamonds with the money. Good call. I'm I the only sane person in this whole damn forum?

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This Fumus guy is really a lost cause .
Aww...Mr.Looner. I suggest you brush up on your tennis knowledge and type less nonsense.

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Anyone who says any player has no chance against Dolgopolov is clearly trolling.
That's the gospel.
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post #169 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 10:54 PM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Fumus View Post
I keep giving simple facts and I keep hearing Lance is evil because he doped and Novak is right. C'mon seriously, grow up.
Novak merely repeated what everybody else round the world is saying, it's not like he made some revelation there If you weren't infatuated with your American hero, you'd think the same.

“There’s so many athletes, tennis players around the world,” he continued, trying to put his life into some kind of perspective, “they want to be the best in what they do. They want to succeed. Many of them, they don’t succeed in the end. I’m fortunate to have this opportunity and succeed.”
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post #170 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 11:16 PM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Yes it does.(...)
obvious troll is obvious.

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post #171 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 11:23 PM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Fumus View Post
HUH? Misery? How about all the cancer research, millions raised for charity, hope he's given those with deadly disease? How about all the lives he's saved?

You trolls here really need to beef up your skills in creating a decent argument.

Armstrong isn't evil and the only ones he's made miserable are the ones who attacked him for doing what everyone else in the sport was doing at the time.

Go back to trollin' the GM.



He can send his regards...I'll send him the record books and ask who has the most TDF wins. Lance is the greatest ever.



Djokovic is a HYPOCRITE.

Lance is a HERO.

Can anyone really argue that statement?

1 guy has raised millions for cancer research through his charity and spear headed an effort to promote a healthy lifestyle.

Another guy is just a pompous ass running his mouth and doesn't even have a charity to speak of...even though he's made millions. He's talking about how people should suffer for cheating...meanwhile he's faked injuries a million times to try to gain an upper hand in matches, gosh if that's not cheating I don't know what is.

Lance hero.

Novak Hypocrite.



American's are bees knees dude... also we're the richest, most highly developed country in the world. Um, but yea we blindly believe the media and are slaves to the television. We totally suck and are dumb...

Just like how you don't watch tennis or understand the game. You clearly didn't watch Lance, the tour or much cycling. I don't know what that has to do with the media or Americans but I'll just smile and nod the next time you post.



WTF!? I mean it seriously, I suppose your post was suppose to be meant as incompetent. Most Tour De France wins ever...yea, but he wasn't the best cyclist in the history of the sport. Hmm...I also think that Andre Agassi was the greatest tennis player ever based on my opinion I mean using an empirical measurement like number of weeks at number 1, slam wins, titles etc. That's just stupid, I'll pickout who I like and just say they are the best ever.

Nice post. LOL.



LOL. Yea, do you believe in Santa Claus too?
I can see you've beefed your argument creating skills up to that point where you lose all contacts with reality.
In your own reality you created a whole new world of lies and twisted facts.
You can dwell in it for as long as you wish, I don't mind.

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Rafael has won more titles than Novak Djokovic, but speaking merely about tennis and about the game, Rafa has to be considered slightly lower than Djokovic. The Serb is such a good player that he is as close as you can get to Roger Federer
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post #172 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 11:24 PM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Fumus View Post
WTF!? Yes it went to his pocket and he bought conflict diamonds with the money. Good call. I'm I the only sane person in this whole damn forum?
Livestrong gave up funding cancer research in 2005, they're very open about it. It was a PR front by Nike and Armstrong, very cleverly done. Made him a ton of money - for example, look at livestrong.com. It's a commercial operation, which pays Armstrong (.org is the supposed cancer foundation).

A nice example is that Livestrong was paying lobbyists in Washington, trying to get USADA to lay off Armstrong. Why would a cancer foundation do that?

Last edited by philosophicalarf; 01-20-2013 at 03:46 AM.
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post #173 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 11:52 PM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Fumus View Post
I only want to see what I see? Everyone has their own perspective on things, it's an opinion.

I also think red is the best color in the world. Just sayin'

You were not stating your opinion. You said djokvoic did no charity, no foundation to help people. The FACT is he has a charitable foundation helping young people of which he even received Centrepoint Award in London last year. These are FACTS, not opinion or perspective.

Obvious, FACTS are not something you can deal with.

And in your hero worship of Armstrong, you are so blinded that you even not recognised his charitable foundation, which is so holy in your opinion that you do not even know said foundation no longer contribute to any cancer research for many years.

And I have wasted enough time here, not just you but this thread.

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post #174 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-20-2013, 02:33 AM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by zcess81 View Post
Can you name me a few former TRUE elite players who have been exposed as cheats? Agassi comes to mind, but he didn't take performance enhancing drugs, as far as I know. Most former tennis cheats are nowhere near no.1 spot. Until they expose an elite player (multiple grand slam winner), such as Fed/Rafa/Nole etc., it just shows that it is far from easy to cheat in tennis if you are constantly under the microscope. This is especially true now where we have zero privacy. The moment Fed/Nole/Murray/Rafa start taking performance enhancing drugs/cheating, rumors would spread like a plague and they'd have nowhere to hide.

Basically, until we have a concrete proof (such as Armstrong in cycling), it is extremely cynical to assume that the same is true in tennis at the very top of the game.

Like I said before, unless you are into conspiracy theories, it is extremely difficult to believe that the elite players, who are constantly under the microscope, and who have so much at stake, are taking performance enhancing drugs. Lower ranked guys, maybe, as they have less to lose and as they are off the spotlight, but the top 4-5...forget it.
QED.
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post #175 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-20-2013, 02:51 AM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Fumus

Eufemiano Fuentes

“I worked with cyclists but also footballers, boxers, tennis players and athletes,”


For Posterity

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I honestly don't think Brown has much of a chance at all, think he might get a set at best though.

Last edited by Fujee; 01-20-2013 at 03:08 AM.
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post #176 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-20-2013, 02:58 AM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Fumus View Post
WTF!? I mean it seriously, I suppose your post was suppose to be meant as incompetent. Most Tour De France wins ever...yea, but he wasn't the best cyclist in the history of the sport. Hmm...I also think that Andre Agassi was the greatest tennis player ever based on my opinion I mean using an empirical measurement like number of weeks at number 1, slam wins, titles etc. That's just stupid, I'll pickout who I like and just say they are the best ever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Litotes View Post
Then you know precious little about cycling. Merckx won eleven Grand Tours - eleven is better than seven, in much the same way seven Wimbledons by a tennis player with nothing to back them up wouldn't beat Borg's eleven. Plus, Merckx has 22 wins in the biggest one-day races, the monuments (19) plus the world championships (3), compared to Armstrong's one - the WC 1993. Merckx is so much better it is no surprise there were room for several others in between, such as Coppi, Hinault, Anquetil, Bartali, Gilmondi, Kelly....


The article Fumus posted provides as an argument to support the idea that "Armstrong is the greatest cyclist who ever lived" the following:

1) "In a sport where so many of the good ones were doping, Armstrong was competing on a field that was more or less level. No one was in his category."

2) "There has never been a cyclist of his talent, stamina, perseverance."

That's it, pretty much. Somehow, Litotes arguments seem more compelling.

(Incidentally, the journalist who wrote the piece is neither a specialist in cycling nor any other sports.)
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post #177 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-20-2013, 08:21 AM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Fujee View Post
Blood transfusions also. Miraculous recoveries after epic matches seem to suggest this no?
I doubt it.

Transporting bags of frozen blood to Australia for example, sounds logistically improbable to me.
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post #178 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-20-2013, 08:26 AM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

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Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski View Post
I doubt it.

Transporting bags of frozen blood to Australia for example, sounds logistically improbable to me.
Oh ye of little faith...

If cyclists were able to do it, crossing the extremely closely watched French borders, getting BBs into Australia is easy as.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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post #179 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-20-2013, 08:27 AM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fumus View Post
HUH? Misery? How about all the cancer research, millions raised for charity, hope he's given those with deadly disease? How about all the lives he's saved?

You trolls here really need to beef up your skills in creating a decent argument.

Armstrong isn't evil and the only ones he's made miserable are the ones who attacked him for doing what everyone else in the sport was doing at the time.

Go back to trollin' the GM.



He can send his regards...I'll send him the record books and ask who has the most TDF wins. Lance is the greatest ever.



Djokovic is a HYPOCRITE.

Lance is a HERO.

Can anyone really argue that statement?

1 guy has raised millions for cancer research through his charity and spear headed an effort to promote a healthy lifestyle.

Another guy is just a pompous ass running his mouth and doesn't even have a charity to speak of...even though he's made millions. He's talking about how people should suffer for cheating...meanwhile he's faked injuries a million times to try to gain an upper hand in matches, gosh if that's not cheating I don't know what is.

Lance hero.

Novak Hypocrite.



American's are bees knees dude... also we're the richest, most highly developed country in the world. Um, but yea we blindly believe the media and are slaves to the television. We totally suck and are dumb...

Just like how you don't watch tennis or understand the game. You clearly didn't watch Lance, the tour or much cycling. I don't know what that has to do with the media or Americans but I'll just smile and nod the next time you post.



WTF!? I mean it seriously, I suppose your post was suppose to be meant as incompetent. Most Tour De France wins ever...yea, but he wasn't the best cyclist in the history of the sport. Hmm...I also think that Andre Agassi was the greatest tennis player ever based on my opinion I mean using an empirical measurement like number of weeks at number 1, slam wins, titles etc. That's just stupid, I'll pickout who I like and just say they are the best ever.

Nice post. LOL.



LOL. Yea, do you believe in Santa Claus too?
Jesus Christ... get a clue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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post #180 of 288 (permalink) Old 01-20-2013, 08:29 AM
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Re: Djokovic on Armstrong, cycling, doping etc

Don't know if this has been posted yet. Murray and Federer call for stricter doping tests:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ten...n-cycling.html

Quote:
Andy Murray calls on tennis to get tough on drugs in the wake of the Lance Armstrong scandal in cycling
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ten...in-tennis.html

Quote:
Roger Federer wants to be drug tested more often as worries mount over anti-doping programme in tennis

Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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