WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori - Page 3 - MensTennisForums.com

View Poll Results: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori
Ferrer in 3 10 16.95%
Ferrer in 4 19 32.20%
Ferrer in 5 6 10.17%
Nishikori in 3 3 5.08%
Nishikori in 4 8 13.56%
Nishikori in 5 13 22.03%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

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post #31 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-18-2013, 11:58 AM
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Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

He's not offensive in the grand scheme of things, he's totally conservative.

He made Tommy Robredo look like a really attacking player last year in Tokyo, also Marcel Granollers in Cincinnati.

I can understand why loads of people like Nishikori. He's Japanese which is cool, he's a sympathetic hero with all the injury problems, and has technically good looking shots. I'm just quite surprised that only a couple of people notice the amount of MTOs he takes. It's bad form and a rather vile form of gamesmanship.
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post #32 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-18-2013, 12:00 PM
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Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

healthy kei wins. But I fear there is no way he can beat the ultimate grinder in a five setter with his current health issues. Unfortunately Ferrer in 5.
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post #33 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-18-2013, 12:00 PM
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Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

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Originally Posted by BackhandDTL View Post
He's constructively offensive. He's a small guy, and his ability to dictate points or produce winners more often than not depends on his positioning (not unlike Ferrer). Thus, it's a task for him to apply and maintain it.

Just look at the offensive progression he made in today's match against Donskoy.

Or just hold on to that one stat as a be-all, end-all.
I'd add that he has natural power limitations, which means that when he's really off a long stretch with no winners is pretty conceivable. Guys like say Tsonga or Berdych will get a few winners even when they're off because of their natural power. Kei plays a big man game (not literally but he's quite offensive) with a small man's body, it's prone to misfiring a few times when his timing is off or movement hindered a bit.

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post #34 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-18-2013, 12:02 PM
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Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

Nishikori is more like a neutral baselined that skews very slightly on the offensive side. To be honest when you look at his physical limitations he's about as attacking as you could expect. I suspect he gets somewhat of a free pass for his MTOs due to the fact he is legitimately injured half the time.

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post #35 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-18-2013, 12:02 PM
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Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

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Originally Posted by BackhandDTL View Post
He hurts him for the same reason Davydenko recently did in Doha. He goes for the same tactics Ferrer does with added firepower. He's not afraid to change directions, he looks to play inside the court, he takes time away from his opponent, and loves using that forehand.

When Ferrer faces guys like this, he struggles to maintain his own constructive offense and ends up scrambling.

But yeah, no, forget the nuances of tennis and dismiss everything as irrelevant because this Ferrer is too good.
This is not grass. Ferrer in 3

“There’s so many athletes, tennis players around the world,” he continued, trying to put his life into some kind of perspective, “they want to be the best in what they do. They want to succeed. Many of them, they don’t succeed in the end. I’m fortunate to have this opportunity and succeed.”
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post #36 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-18-2013, 12:11 PM
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Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

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Originally Posted by BackhandDTL View Post
He's constructively offensive. He's a small guy, and his ability to dictate points or produce winners more often than not depends on his positioning (not unlike Ferrer). Thus, it's a task for him to apply and maintain it.

Just look at the offensive progression he made in today's match against Donskoy.

Or just hold on to that one stat as a be-all, end-all.
That one stat was only an example obviously. It says everything though. He was not injured at that moment and he still hit 0 winners against freaking Soeda, no attacking player is even capable of doing that. If you need another example, look at The Bulldog's post.


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post #37 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-18-2013, 12:11 PM
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Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
I'd add that he has natural power limitations, which means that when he's really off a long stretch with no winners is pretty conceivable. Guys like say Tsonga or Berdych will get a few winners even when they're off because of their natural power. Kei plays a big man game (not literally but he's quite offensive) with a small man's body, it's prone to misfiring a few times when his timing is off or movement hindered a bit.
Agreed. The one thing I'd add that sometimes helps counterbalance his lack of firepower is that the racquet head speed on his forehand is insanely fast. That, in itself, doesn't necessarily equate to a big ball every time, but it's a contributing factor when he does go for it.

The way he went for his forehand in the ad court today was impressive.

I used to get frustrated by his routine retreat behind the baseline because it made life on court that much harder for him (not to mention his body; stress fractures and all). Like you said, he's a small guy attempting a big man's game. But he's recently made a greater effort to go after the ball and it has really helped him as a player.
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post #38 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-18-2013, 12:24 PM
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Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

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Originally Posted by BackhandDTL View Post
Agreed. The one thing I'd add that sometimes helps counterbalance his lack of firepower is that the racquet head speed on his forehand is insanely fast. That, in itself, doesn't necessarily equate to a big ball every time, but it's a contributing factor when he does go for it.

The way he went for his forehand in the ad court today was impressive.

I used to get frustrated by his routine retreat behind the baseline because it made life on court that much harder for him (not to mention his body; stress fractures and all). Like you said, he's a small guy attempting a big man's game. But he's recently made a greater effort to go after the ball and it has really helped him as a player.
Yup, his FH can be quite a great shot, he has insane racket head speed. His strokes are pretty flawless technically, but we're in an era that favors guy with a physical edge more than ever and Kei's struggle to generate power on his serve and off the ground hurts him quite a lot.

I also think he's improving a lot in terms of his court positioning to maximize his potential. I think his approach will have good results long term provided he manages to stay fit - that's always been his biggest issue. He's not exactly Davydenko taking every ball on the rise but the way he manages to dictate play against even some of the biggest hitters on tour like Berdych or Tsonga is very impresive. He is the perfect epitome of a likeable underdog on the ATP tour: small guy with power limitations really taking it to the top guns and attacking them (as opposed to playing the percentages like most short players do), perenially injured.. he also has quite a great backhand down the line, no wonder you like him

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post #39 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-18-2013, 12:39 PM
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Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

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Originally Posted by BackhandDTL View Post
Lol @ Ferrer being "too good". Kei beat him in a major as a youth!

Anyway, this is one of the more worthy "WWW"'s (most have been arbitrary). I'm gonna say Kei does it in 4: 6-4 7-5 3-6 6-4

And not to make excuses, but Nishikori actually was having his ankle taped during an MTO while he was up like a set and a break in yesterday's match, so he could have legitimate issues going forward.
It's funny that medical issues are a legitimate reason to dismiss any of Ferrer's victories, but you seem to overlook the fact that when Kei beat David "as a youth", David was having some major personal issues and possibly a big depression, and that it was the beginning of a long slump for him.

The 2012 Olympic encounter would be a better reference, but I don't agree that Ferrer was "in form", it was actually the one period in 2012 when he was not that great. He had a great year, but with a small slump between Wimbledon and the USO (tiredness, illness, a bit of both).
Plus, it was on grass, which is still Ferrer's worst surface.

However, don't mistake me, I do believe Nishikori is a real threat. He seems to be solid, while Ferrer's true form is a bit of a mystery to me so far. So anything could happen really. I'm gonna say Ferrer in 5, but that's more wishful thinking than an actual prediction.
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post #40 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-18-2013, 12:40 PM
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Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

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Originally Posted by leng jai View Post
Nishikori is more like a neutral baselined that skews very slightly on the offensive side. To be honest when you look at his physical limitations he's about as attacking as you could expect. I suspect he gets somewhat of a free pass for his MTOs due to the fact he is legitimately injured half the time.
Great observation, also well said from BackhandDTL.
I like them both but definitely more keen on watching Kei's game. Ferrer can be quite boring sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Deathless Mortal View Post
I mean, how is a guy that manages to hit a total of 0 winners in a whole set against Soeda of all people considered an attacking player?
I know it gets quite annoying with the MTOs, but cut him some slack for being extra cautious, the guy had major surgery when he was just 19yrs old.

And the match against Soeda as an example is rubbish, I think Kei's proven his skills to be a consistent top player when he's injury free. Not making excuses for him but anyone can have a bad day at the office, and I think the fact that he was playing a fellow countryman somewhat affected him mentally.

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Kei Nishikori | Yen-Hsun Lu | Somdev Devvarman | Yeu-Tzuoo Wang | Di Wu
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post #41 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-18-2013, 12:56 PM
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Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

[youtube]U8flsT0jEak[/youtube]

Nishikori brings out the worst in him, but hopefully there won't be another outburst like this

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post #42 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-18-2013, 01:10 PM
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Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

Fingers crossed for nishikori to make it as far as the djoker.
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post #43 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-18-2013, 01:13 PM
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Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
I'd add that he has natural power limitations, which means that when he's really off a long stretch with no winners is pretty conceivable. Guys like say Tsonga or Berdych will get a few winners even when they're off because of their natural power. Kei plays a big man game (not literally but he's quite offensive) with a small man's body, it's prone to misfiring a few times when his timing is off or movement hindered a bit.
And Ferrer, who is slightly shorter than Nishikori, has no natural power limitations?
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post #44 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-18-2013, 03:22 PM
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Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

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And Ferrer, who is slightly shorter than Nishikori, has no natural power limitations?
He does. Unlike Kei, however, he does not take an offensive approach in spite of it. He wins matches by running an incredible amount of miles every match and grinding almost every point. Granted, he's the fittest player on tour with the best endurance, but that is hardly as praiseworthy.

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post #45 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-18-2013, 03:22 PM
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Re: WWW Australian Open R4: Ferrer v. Nishikori

Ferrer has looked strong. I'm gonna go for Ferrer in 3 (possibly 4 if Nishi is on fire).

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