If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal... - Page 17 - MensTennisForums.com
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post #241 of 742 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 10:22 AM Thread Starter
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Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

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Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
Let me do one.

Pete Sampras has high level practical understanding of tennis. An expert tennis historian/statistician is a person with an extremely detailed knowledge of past tennis matches, who has a proven track record in understanding trends and making accurate predictions of future outcomes. From the fact that Pete Sampras has a high level practical understanding of tennis it does not follow that he is an expert tennis historian/statistician.

Do you disagree with anything in the above reasoning?
Why did yoy ask this question?


Quote:
Every reasonable person has to decide for themselves what is true or not. Even if you choose to defer to an expert, you're the one that decides what qualifies someone to be an expert, and of course different 'experts' disagree.

Ultimately all experts have is arguments based on facts and data. You should believe someone because their argument is sound, not because they have some magical mantle on their head. In that regard, people on MTF can make sound arguments too, and saying "but you're not an expert" does nothing to invalidate those arguments. Knowledge is a tool that can be used by everyone, not just those sitting atop some high tower throwing down scraps of wisdom to the peasants below.
The debate here is a complex issue. Non-experts on tennis do not have knowledge to comprehend which argument is more sound in debate about a complex tennis issue. In this context I said that every reasonable person will rather believe Sampras than an anonymous poster on MTF.

Last edited by Alaricus; 12-11-2012 at 12:21 PM.
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post #242 of 742 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 06:44 PM
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Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

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Originally Posted by 5555 View Post
Why did yoy ask this question?
Because that's my argument. So either agree, or find a fault in my reasoning.

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The debate here is a complex issue. Non-experts on tennis do not have knowledge to comprehend which argument is more sound in debate about a complex tennis issue.
That's assertion, not argument. I could take a debate about anything and make that claim. X topic is complex issue, only experts on X have the knowledge to comprehend which argument is more sound. Y is an expert on X, because he is widely recognized to have practical knowledge of the subject (take any media personality here). We're not publicly recognized experts, hence just have to agree with Y.

The massive hole in your argument is that you don't need to be a publicly recognized expert to have expertise on a subject. Otherwise only 'experts' could debate anything. And essentially anyone can read and post on MTF, even Sampras himself. When someone presents an argument, they're not saying "believe me because I'm some anonymous internet person"; they're not asking for your faith. They're presenting a series of claims backed up by certain evidence, for others to evaluate.

Your response is to say "How dare you make an argument on this topic! We're all too stupid to discuss this issue, so lets just blindly believe what this other person says, because he's good at playing tennis".
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post #243 of 742 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 12:02 AM
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Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

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We know that Sampras is very knowledgeable about tennis beacause he was an top professional player for a long time. What do we know about the poster Roy Emerson?

I'm very interested what is going to be your answer...
Only what he has posted before on MTF. And much of what he has posted before seems quite sensible, supported with apt illustration or reasoned argument.
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post #244 of 742 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 03:08 AM
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Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

Speaking of off topics & purposeful lies.
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post #245 of 742 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 03:34 AM
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Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

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Speaking of off topics & purposeful lies.
Glad that you recognize and acknowledge your own habit.
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post #246 of 742 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 07:27 AM
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Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

still got a long way to go but certainly possible. however it is surprising how dramatic things could change and so very soon. if he got knocked out of Australia early (unlikely I know, with how great his game suits that tournament) I think Federer would already have a possibility at the #1 ranking if he won the tournament

<3 Roger Federer <3 David Ferrer <3 Juan Martin Del Potro <3 Ernest Gulbis <3

------------------------ <3 Richard Gasquet <3

Rafael Nadal
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post #247 of 742 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 07:45 AM
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Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

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Originally Posted by Mountaindewslave View Post
still got a long way to go but certainly possible. however it is surprising how dramatic things could change and so very soon. if he got knocked out of Australia early (unlikely I know, with how great his game suits that tournament) I think Federer would already have a possibility at the #1 ranking if he won the tournament
Yes, to be precise - a QF exit for Djokovic leaves Federer the possibility of regaining #1 by winning the tournament. Djokovic would still be in a good position to regain #1 not long afterwards, though, as Federer is defending titles in Dubai, Rotterdam and Indian Wells.
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post #248 of 742 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 07:50 AM
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Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

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Originally Posted by 5555 View Post
The debate here is a complex issue. Non-experts on tennis do not have knowledge to comprehend which argument is more sound in debate about a complex tennis issue. In this context I said that every reasonable person will rather believe Sampras than an anonymous poster on MTF.
When you've posted a while on the forum, many posters will no longer be anonymous. You with your 103 posts will obviously not have aquainted yourself with the posters here to the same degree as many others have. So you should not speak about their expertise until you know them better. When you do you too will take the word of some of them over Sampras unless you're dead set against it happening from the outset.

By the way, did you find out what odds bookies give for Djokovic reaching 10+ majors?
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post #249 of 742 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 07:58 AM
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Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

Djokovic was failing himself the first 7 months of the yr,
This had nothing to do with Federer dominating tennis; he benefitted from Nadal's misfortune. This is not 2004-2006.
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post #250 of 742 (permalink) Old 12-13-2012, 10:00 AM
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Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

This is not 2002-2006, Rodduck is retired and so should you.
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post #251 of 742 (permalink) Old 12-13-2012, 08:06 PM
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Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

Back on topic:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5555 View Post
at total weeks at No. 1!

1. Federer 302
2. Sampras 286
3. Lendl 270
4. Connors 268
5. McEnroe 170
6. Borg 109
7. Nadal 102
8. Agassi 101
9. Hewitt 80
10. Edberg 72
11. Courier 58
12. Djokovic 56
Update:

1. Federer 302
2. Sampras 286
3. Lendl 270
4. Connors 268
5. McEnroe 170
6. Borg 109
7. Nadal 102
8. Agassi 101
9. Hewitt 80
10. Edberg 72
11. Djokovic 59
12. Courier 58

Little by little...

In order to pass Edberg, all Novak needs is to make the semis in Australia, Dubai and Indian Wells. That will guarantee his #1 at least until 18 March 2013, 73 weeks.

Given Novak's consistency of late, I'm hopeful.

NOVAK DJOKOVIC
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post #252 of 742 (permalink) Old 12-13-2012, 08:08 PM
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Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

Novak will soon overtake dull.

Mark Lenders banged your girlfriend, I'm sorry to tell you that mate.
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post #253 of 742 (permalink) Old 12-13-2012, 09:19 PM
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Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

If djoko didn't fuck around between winning his first and second GS, he would be ahead of dull right now in weeks at no.1 and slams as well. I doubt he can achieve either of those things now.
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post #254 of 742 (permalink) Old 12-13-2012, 09:27 PM
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Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

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Originally Posted by End da Game View Post
If djoko didn't fuck around between winning his first and second GS, he would be ahead of dull right now in weeks at no.1 and slams as well. I doubt he can achieve either of those things now.
I agree with you regarding a gap between his 1st and 2nd slam, but there is still plenty of time left for Nole to bridge this gap.
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post #255 of 742 (permalink) Old 12-13-2012, 09:32 PM
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Re: If Djokovic stays the No. 1 until October, he will overtake Nadal...

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I agree with you regarding a gap between his 1st and 2nd slam, but there is still plenty of time left for Nole to bridge this gap.
This gap? they're very different gaps, I'd say. It would be no shocker if Djokovic surpassed the 102 weeks this year, whereas the eleven slams will not come about as quickly under any circumstances.
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