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post #31 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 06:54 PM
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Re: Is Murray using mind games during matches?

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The essence of the matter. Even if he does it on purpose (and my gut tells me he doesn't), the opponent still has the chance to just ignore it and keep doing his thing.
MTOs, on the other hand, physically prevent the opponent from playing. It's not just a mind game anymore.
Those things are not the same, not by a longshot.
Not really. Ask any tennis player, and they will tell you that one of the most difficult things is to play an injured opponent. Unless you are a very strong-willed individual, it is VERY difficult to simply "ignore" what's in front of you (an injured opponent). The effect is sub-conscious, more often than not. Your mind is giving you false signals, telling you that "you have him" that you do not have to play high-risk tennis anymore "just move him around the court and that will be enough."

Human beings follow the path of least resistance. It is ingrained in us all. Meaning, you will choose the path towards your ultimate goal (winning the match) by doing no more than what's necessary. When a player plays at a very high level, what is necessary is outside of your comfort zone, and you have no choice but to raise your game and play high risk tennis. When the opponent is injured (or pretends to be), path of least resistance tells you (falsely) that you can achieve your goal (win the match) by getting back to your comfort zone, which is only natural. Nobody wants to be out of their comfort zone. The mind plays tricks on you. That is why only the very best can "ignore" these mind games consistently, but even they fail from time to time. But more often than not, the very best players are strong-willed pros, impermeable to tricks and mind games.

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post #32 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 08:16 PM
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Re: Is Murray using mind games during matches?

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Not really. Ask any tennis player, and they will tell you that one of the most difficult things is to play an injured opponent. Unless you are a very strong-willed individual, it is VERY difficult to simply "ignore" what's in front of you (an injured opponent). The effect is sub-conscious, more often than not. Your mind is giving you false signals, telling you that "you have him" that you do not have to play high-risk tennis anymore "just move him around the court and that will be enough."

Human beings follow the path of least resistance. It is ingrained in us all. Meaning, you will choose the path towards your ultimate goal (winning the match) by doing no more than what's necessary. When a player plays at a very high level, what is necessary is outside of your comfort zone, and you have no choice but to raise your game and play high risk tennis. When the opponent is injured (or pretends to be), path of least resistance tells you (falsely) that you can achieve your goal (win the match) by getting back to your comfort zone, which is only natural. Nobody wants to be out of their comfort zone. The mind plays tricks on you. That is why only the very best can "ignore" these mind games consistently, but even they fail from time to time. But more often than not, the very best players are strong-willed pros, impermeable to tricks and mind games.
This. feigning injury is disgusting.

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post #33 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 08:19 PM
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Re: Is Murray using mind games during matches?

I don't think Murray does it intentionally, but the way he groans and reacts as if he won't be able get to a ball is incredibly annoying. He reacts as if to say, "Oh dear, there is absolutely no way I will be able to run this shot down!" And of course he's there in plenty of time. I think it's a subconscious bluff.
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post #34 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 09:00 PM
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Re: Is Murray using mind games during matches?

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Do not fool yourself. There is nothing "involuntary" about what Murray is doing. How come that "involuntary tick" only comes into play when Murray is losing? I've seen him MANY times exhibit that "involuntary tick" when he loses a few points, when he starts losing the momentum, then when he starts winning, it mysteriously vanishes.
I am a Murray fan, but I tend to agree with you on this point. I do believe against Niemenen that he was injured at Roland Garros. You don't often see him get the trainer out unless there's a geniune problem.

I do however, believe that he went through a phase earlier this year (up until Wimbledon) of grabbing at certain parts of his body when things weren't going his way. Whether it be for the benefit of himself and used it as a coping mechanism to help him psychologically deal with losing the point, or to the detriment of the guy at the other side of the net as to confuse and lower his level of play. There was a point against Gasquet at RG, where he was consistently grabbing and the French crowd started to boo him, Murray laughed, and the proceeded to demolish a disgruntled Gasquet. It did the job.

Mind games operate at all levels of the game, subtle or not.
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post #35 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 09:13 PM
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Re: Is Murray using mind games during matches?

Murray dosen't play mindgames intentionally the way nadal does for instance.

When things arent going his way sometimes his psychological symptoms can manifest into physical ones. Thats about all, he isn't doing it to put the other guy off if anything it only hurts his performance.

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post #36 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 09:22 PM
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Re: Is Murray using mind games during matches?

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Murray did it to Nieminen at Roland Garros. Always looking like he is dead tired is mind games, but players have to be professional and focus on the round yellow thing and hit it.
That was disgusting. The worst i've seen this year
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post #37 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 09:53 PM
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Re: Is Murray using mind games during matches?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out. One of the first basic lessons in confrontational sports like boxing and wrestling is to act strong when you're weak, act weak when you're strong. If an opponent falls for it, that's on him. If an opponent lets up on the attack, that's on him. Subconscious or not, no one is forcing him to go easy on you. Every professional athlete and a vast majority of people know this simple tactic. When Djokovic appeared to start breathing heavily and gestured to his team in the fourth set during the AO final the commentators mentioned that he's in trouble, I knew better than to count him out, he wasn't in trouble, and Nadal didn't let up. You can throw all the mind games that you can at an opponent but if said opponent is smart enough to not be bothered by it, it all cancels out and only athletic ability matters. If anyone falls for these so called 'mind games' he's a mental midget.
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post #38 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 10:12 PM
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Re: Is Murray using mind games during matches?

All tennis pros engage in mind games, as a competitor you have to mentally tough enough to block it out and focus on hitting that fuzzy yellow ball and getting the match won. A lot easier said than done I know.

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post #39 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 10:35 PM
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Post Re: Is Murray using mind games during matches?

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Originally Posted by Action Jackson View Post
Murray did it to Nieminen at Roland Garros. Always looking like he is dead tired is mind games, but players have to be professional and focus on the round yellow thing and hit it.
Nieminen? Absolute bullshit. I'm guessing he faked the injury so Nieminen would have some hope for a win? Wrong, Andy was injured and slowly got back into the match after some treatment throughout the first hour or so. No mind games there, he was injured and crawled back into it.

Also, he looks tired because that's how he looks. That's not mind games, that's just how he looks. You could say a player who scowls is using mindgames or how Raonic is using mind games because he keeps himself calm. Those aren't mind games, they are just things that the players do all the time. Also, Andy grabbing parts of his body is the closest thing he does to mind games and even then he does it because he's always done it. Even when winning, he does it. He doesn't do that to annoy/irritate/throw off his opponent. That's absurd.

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post #40 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-15-2012, 12:44 AM
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Re: Is Murray using mind games during matches?

Obviously. It's the only way this no talent pusher managed to win a slam.
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post #41 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-15-2012, 12:52 AM
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Re: Is Murray using mind games during matches?

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Originally Posted by Andi-M View Post
Murray dosen't play mindgames intentionally the way nadal does for instance.

When things arent going his way sometimes his psychological symptoms can manifest into physical ones. Thats about all, he isn't doing it to put the other guy off if anything it only hurts his performance.
And you know this how? Are you a mind reader? When Nadal takes a medical time out, why don't you apply the same "sometimes his psychological symptoms can manifest into physical ones" BS? How come is it only when it comes to Murray that you can read minds? Could it be because you're a Murray fan and far from objective on this matter?

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post #42 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-15-2012, 12:55 AM
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Re: Is Murray using mind games during matches?

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Nieminen? Absolute bullshit. I'm guessing he faked the injury so Nieminen would have some hope for a win? Wrong, Andy was injured and slowly got back into the match after some treatment throughout the first hour or so. No mind games there, he was injured and crawled back into it.

Also, he looks tired because that's how he looks. That's not mind games, that's just how he looks. You could say a player who scowls is using mindgames or how Raonic is using mind games because he keeps himself calm. Those aren't mind games, they are just things that the players do all the time. Also, Andy grabbing parts of his body is the closest thing he does to mind games and even then he does it because he's always done it. Even when winning, he does it. He doesn't do that to annoy/irritate/throw off his opponent. That's absurd.
Another naive mind reader, but it's expected, so it's OK.

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post #43 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-15-2012, 12:59 AM
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Re: Is Murray using mind games during matches?

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All tennis pros engage in mind games, as a competitor you have to mentally tough enough to block it out and focus on hitting that fuzzy yellow ball and getting the match won. A lot easier said than done I know.
That makes way too much sense for some MTF posters on here. Yes, all players engage in mind games. I have no problem with it. It's just another test you have to pass during a match. But apparently some posters on here believe what they want to believe about their favorite players and think that they are different and never use mind games. Denial.

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post #44 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-15-2012, 01:07 AM
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Re: Is Murray using mind games during matches?

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"I don't mind mind games as it brings spice to the confrontations, but please, spare me of this BS that Federer is some classy guy who doesn't play dirty. He does, just like Nadal, Nole and Murray"
Quoted from the closed thread.
I thought about it and I can't remember a single occasion when he tried to disrupt his opponent in such way, unlike the other three. He is mostly abusive to himself only.
Can anyone actually remember him doing something like that?
Roger does psyche his opponents with digs in the media
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post #45 of 50 (permalink) Old 11-15-2012, 07:17 AM
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Re: Is Murray using mind games during matches?

In Shanghai Final Murray was incessantly cursing whenever Djokovic was playing good. Although you cannot fault him for that because it looks as if he is doing it on himself. But actually he is doing nothing but jinxing the opponent. But afterall its a Professional game and like the Man from Scandinavia said. Its a Professional game and at the end of the day you have to see the yellow Ball and whack it and forget everything else.
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