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post #16 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-06-2012, 04:19 PM
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Re: 2012 Tie-break Kings

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Good point Looner, you nearly convinced me this time

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post #17 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-06-2012, 04:21 PM
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Re: 2012 Tie-break Kings

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Thanks for supporting me
Thank you for allowing me to destroy your logic.
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post #18 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-06-2012, 04:22 PM
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Re: 2012 Tie-break Kings

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Originally Posted by Chip & Charge View Post
Ok if you refine it for the top 10 who have played at least 20 tie breaks we have:

1. A.Murray - Played 25 Won 68.00%
2. J.Isner - Played 56 Won 67.86%
3. J.Melzer - Played 20 Won 65.00%
4. J.Tipsarevic - Played 34 Won 64.71%
5. D.Ferrer - Played 31 Won 64.52%
6. R.Federer - Played 31 Won 61.29%
7. J.Tsonga - Played 36 Won 61.11%
8. S.Querrey - Played 33 Won 60.61%
9. J.Del Potro - Played 43 Won 60.47%
10. R.Stepanek - Played 20 Won 60.00%
Thanks! Good list, impressive showings from these players. Especially impressive from Isner and Melzer who are not top 10 players (though Isner was for some of this sample time period). Being the better player does give you an advantage in a breaker, which is why it's hard to determine how impressive a positive % is. It's safe to say, Murray's superiority to most of his opposition is not such that he should be expected to approach 70% W/L, very strong stats from him this year.

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post #19 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-06-2012, 04:22 PM
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Re: 2012 Tie-break Kings

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Originally Posted by GOAT = Fed View Post
Thank you for allowing me to destroy your logic.
Yeah, but you didn't.

Me saying Nadal is a better player and usually doesn't NEED a tiebreak unlike Olderer.

You coming up with a stat saying Nadal has only played 11 and Fed a whopping 31.

Yes, you really ripped it apart 'm8'

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post #20 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-06-2012, 04:27 PM
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Re: 2012 Tie-break Kings

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Tipsarevic
I also had another dream around a year ago... something like 6-3 6-0 against some glorified clay specialist with hemorrhoid problems.

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We should be appreciative of Federer though, because we will never see anything like him again. The fact he can still compete for slams ever after the erosion of his physical skills is really a greater testament to the natural talent he has than the period of time when he was dominating the tour.
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Nadal is by far the most naturally talented player of all time and that is the reason his stay at the top is a lot longer than players like Federer etc were able to do.
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post #21 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-06-2012, 04:29 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 2012 Tie-break Kings

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Originally Posted by stebs View Post
Thanks! Good list, impressive showings from these players. Especially impressive from Isner and Melzer who are not top 10 players (though Isner was for some of this sample time period). Being the better player does give you an advantage in a breaker, which is why it's hard to determine how impressive a positive % is. It's safe to say, Murray's superiority to most of his opposition is not such that he should be expected to approach 70% W/L, very strong stats from him this year.
No problem, I think it is very impressive from Melzer and Ferrer as well as they don't have a big serve. A tie-break isn't just about the serve but it puts so much pressure on an opponent if you can send down a couple of unreturnable serves, like Isner and Querrey in the top 10. However if you look at someone like Muller or Almagro who have a big serve but have only won 48.48% of 33 and 45.00% of 40 tie-breaks respectively, you obviously need to have the mentality right as well.
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post #22 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-06-2012, 04:30 PM
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Re: 2012 Tie-break Kings

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Yeah, but you didn't.

Me saying Nadal is a better player and usually doesn't NEED a tiebreak unlike Olderer.

You coming up with a stat saying Nadal has only played 11 and Fed a whopping 31.

Yes, you really ripped it apart 'm8'
Lettuce revisit your quote again:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSMnadal View Post
11 TB's is more than enough, not his fault he's not an all serve mug like Jizzner and Serverer and finishes the sets off in 6-2 or 6-3
You are clearly implying here that Federer/Isner finish sets off 6-2/6-3 because of their serves (Despite this making no sense).

Now you've cleared it up, I apologise for misreading it, but it wasn't entirely my fault. Your punctuation is also at fault here (or the lack thereof).
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post #23 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-06-2012, 04:32 PM
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Re: 2012 Tie-break Kings

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Originally Posted by GOAT = Fed View Post
Lettuce revisit your quote again:



You are clearly implying here that Federer/Isner finish sets off 6-2/6-3 because of their serves (Despite this making no sense).

Now you've cleared it up, I apologise for misreading it, but it wasn't entirely my fault. Your punctuation is also at fault here (or the lack thereof).
True. I tend to save my perfect punctuation for college and not for message bords full of trolls.

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post #24 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-06-2012, 04:35 PM
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Re: 2012 Tie-break Kings

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True. I tend to save my perfect punctuation for college and not for message bords full of trolls.
No problem bro, it's understandable, even I can't be bothered to type things out how they're supposed to be on MTF.

Place is full of fuking 'tards with no brains. It's amazing how they can ever understand the game of tennis.
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post #25 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-06-2012, 05:00 PM
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Re: 2012 Tie-break Kings

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Originally Posted by Chip & Charge View Post
Got stats on most of the top 100 at the moment and here are the top 10 for tie-break's this year at ATP tour level:

1. G.Zemlja - Played 9 Won 77.78%
=2. I.Sijsling - Played 8 Won 75.00%
=2. D.Nalbandian- Played 12 Won 75.00%
4. R.Nadal - Played 11 Won 72.73%
5. M.Llodra - Played 14 Won 71.43%
6. N.Davydenko - Played 13 Won 69.23%
7. T.Haas - Played 16 Won 68.75%
8. A.Murray - Played 25 Won 68.00%
9. J.Isner - Played 56 Won 67.86%
=10. F.Fognini - Played 15 Won 66.67%
=10. B.Baker - Played 15 Won 66.67%

Interesting to see quite a few veterans in the top 10 - Nalbandian, Llodra, Davydenko & Haas. Also Isner played 56 tie-breaks this year!!
Isner has played 59 TBs, not 56. I believe this is an all time high. His record is 41-18
Fognini has played 16, not 15. 10-6.
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post #26 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-06-2012, 05:12 PM
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Re: 2012 Tie-break Kings

If only Berdych didn't go through that phrase when he lost like 11 in a row or something.

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post #27 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-06-2012, 05:15 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 2012 Tie-break Kings

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Originally Posted by Litotes View Post
Isner has played 59 TBs, not 56. I believe this is an all time high. His record is 41-18
Fognini has played 16, not 15. 10-6.
Do you include the Davis Cup in that? I haven't included them in my spreadsheet sorry
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post #28 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-06-2012, 05:53 PM
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Re: 2012 Tie-break Kings

At Isner's tie-breaks, i just can't. ANd according to this http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/P...sner.aspx?t=mr he is 41-18 and is 66.7% meaning he actually played 59 tie-breaks.
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post #29 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-06-2012, 06:00 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 2012 Tie-break Kings

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Originally Posted by dencod16 View Post
At Isner's tie-breaks, i just can't. ANd according to this http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/P...sner.aspx?t=mr he is 41-18 and is 66.7% meaning he actually played 59 tie-breaks.
As I said above I only included ATP tournaments in my stats for the season and didn't include the Davis Cup, either way it doesn't matter too much as he would still be in 2nd place
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post #30 of 62 (permalink) Old 11-06-2012, 07:14 PM
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Re: 2012 Tie-break Kings

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Originally Posted by Chip & Charge View Post
No problem, I think it is very impressive from Melzer and Ferrer as well as they don't have a big serve. A tie-break isn't just about the serve but it puts so much pressure on an opponent if you can send down a couple of unreturnable serves, like Isner and Querrey in the top 10. However if you look at someone like Muller or Almagro who have a big serve but have only won 48.48% of 33 and 45.00% of 40 tie-breaks respectively, you obviously need to have the mentality right as well.
There is nothing in the structure of the tie-break that gives advantage to the servers more than regular sets. The only reasonable and defensible reason that TB's are 'better' for big servers is that they have more practice in them (but even this is barely borne out by statistical evidence). The serve being easier to perform under pressure is another plausible hypothesis, but it turns out to be false: http://heavytopspin.com/category/tiebreaks/. This blog (not mine) has some perceptive analyses about tie-breaks but the 'tie-breaks structurally favour big servers' hypothesis does not gain support from the myriad statistical evidence the author examines. It really irks me when TV commentators pull out this line, the perpetuation of myths isn't good for understanding a game.

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