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post #1 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 05:21 AM Thread Starter
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federer's return of serve

Does federer have the worst return of serve in the top 10 atleast. He just seems to block the serve and get it back into play. Is there some heavy spin to the return i am missing?
Djokovic and Murray really attack on their return.
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post #2 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 05:31 AM
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Re: federer's return of serve

as long as tsonga is a top10 player, fed can't have the worst ros...
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post #3 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 05:42 AM
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Re: federer's return of serve

Based on full career, Fed is #6th out of the current top ten for returning first serves.
And 8th for 2nd serve (better than Tsonga and Tipsy).

Based on 2012, Fed is 7th of the current top ten for returning first serve (behind Tsonga!)
Bear in mind that most of the hardcourt season hasn't been played yet.
And for 2nd serve return, he is also 7th.

The players in the top 10 that are consistently ahead of Federer are return-oriented or defense-oriented players: Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, Ferrer and Monaco.
Berdych is ahead in 2nd serve return as he is very good with that shot.

Another thing to note is how many tournaments people like Nadal, Ferrer and Monaco play on clay, which somewhat skews their return stats to the positive.
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post #4 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 05:57 AM
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Re: federer's return of serve

Delete.
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post #5 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 05:57 AM
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Re: federer's return of serve

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Originally Posted by Slice Winner View Post

The players in the top 10 that are consistently ahead of Federer are return-oriented or defense-oriented players: Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, Ferrer and Monaco.
Ferer is not defensive player!
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post #6 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 06:14 AM Thread Starter
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Re: federer's return of serve

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Ferer is not defensive player!
Most spanish players, including ferrer are defensive players. But back to topic, why does federer merely block most serves? Does he put massive spin on it?
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post #7 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 06:17 AM
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Re: federer's return of serve

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Most spanish players, including ferrer are defensive players. But back to topic, why does federer merely block most serves? Does he put massive spin on it?
Blocking big first serves with underspin has a far better chance of going in than driving them with topspin.

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post #8 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 06:18 AM
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Re: federer's return of serve

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Originally Posted by Andy1402 View Post
Most spanish players, including ferrer are defensive players. But back to topic, why does federer merely block most serves? Does he put massive spin on it?
Too lazy. He never really attacks serves, sometimes he smashes a poor 2nd serve with his FH.

I just when he frames 2nd serve returns
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post #9 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 06:20 AM Thread Starter
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Re: federer's return of serve

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Blocking big first serves with underspin has a far better chance of going in than driving them with topspin.
But why don't opponents just drive a huge forehand on his return? I mean the return seems slow enough for them to get into position.
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post #10 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 06:23 AM
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Re: federer's return of serve

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But why don't opponents just drive a huge forehand on his return? I mean the return seems slow enough for them to get into position.
A lot of players do exactly what you say. Federer's blocks are usually deep so you have to hit a fairly risky shot to take full control of the point from there. A lot of single handers are lazy when returning serve on their backhand. Haas and Federer are both guilty at times of sitting back and slicing their returns even on second serves.

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post #11 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 06:23 AM
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Re: federer's return of serve

It's a tactic he won a good number of his slams with. It worked quite well in '03-'07 for two reasons:

(a) big servers were not yet used to seeing their serves neutralized; and
(b) federer was very easily able to outmaneuver his opponents in any rally

Things have changed enough for Federer to need to be more aggressive, but it's been hard for him to do so consistently.
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post #12 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 06:31 AM Thread Starter
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Re: federer's return of serve

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A Lot of players do exactly what you say. Federer's blocks are usually deep so you have to hit a fairly risky shot to take full control of the point from there. A lot of single handers are lazy when returning serve on their backhand. Haas and Federer are both guilty at times of sitting back and slicing their returns even on second serves.
Yes. I think the depth works in his favour. I also think it is a major weakness against nadal who stands way behind the baseline. That allows nadal to take control of points.
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post #13 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 06:44 AM
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Re: federer's return of serve

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Yes. I think the depth works in his favour. I also think it is a major weakness against nadal who stands way behind the baseline. That allows nadal to take control of points.
Agree, which is why Djokovic's return cause Nadal lots of problems.
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post #14 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 06:50 AM
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Re: federer's return of serve

The AO final was a pretty good illustration of that fact. Djokovic consistently hit deep drives off of Nadal's serves which he ended up defensively half volleying because he didn't have enough time to retreat to his usual rallying positon behind the baseline.

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post #15 of 40 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 06:56 AM
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Re: federer's return of serve

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Originally Posted by Andy1402 View Post
Does federer have the worst return of serve in the top 10 atleast. He just seems to block the serve and get it back into play. Is there some heavy spin to the return i am missing?
Djokovic and Murray really attack on their return.
He is one of the weaker returns when considering the general scope of things, however, his specialty has been returning big servers. He does block many of these serves back, however, he places them normally pretty deep or even purposely short to draw opponents into the net against their own terms. At the very least, he makes many of the servers start their points off in a neutral position which is frustrating for them because normally if they hit a big serve, they are expecting a routine winner very early, yet they get something they really can't work with so once the rally starts, Federer obviously becomes very tough to beat.

However, the downside with such returning is that he struggles against servers who don't serve that big and much of their game plan revolves around working the point, so starting the point off neutral doesn't help Federer in those cases at all. In terms of actual poor returning, really the only player he has an issue with when returning serve is Rafa. Nadal doesn't have a huge serve, however, since he slices nearly everything to Federer's backhand, it starts Federer in a disadvantageous position, especially on the ad court since he normally gets pulled off wide to his backhand side, so if he plays a block return, the ball just flies off the racket due to the spin allowing Rafa to take control of most of these rallies.

If you serve a shitty second serve though, he will punish you for it by oftentimes running around and crushing the ball with his forehand.

Federer / Haas / Safin / Gaudio / Kuerten / Youzhny / Nadal / Gonzalez / Ljubicic / Hewitt / Soderling / Wawrinka / Coria / Nalbandian / Kohlschreiber
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