How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4? - Page 3 - MensTennisForums.com

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post #31 of 143 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 09:06 AM
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Oh, come one! The thread is about Rafa overall h2h, not with Fed. We have plenty of those already. His overall h2h is great, no doubt about it. He never chokes, fights for every ball, frustrates every opponent by forcing him to play extra ball (or ten extra balls) so no wonder he achieved it.

So no one taking anything away from him but when you do some analysis of h2h it is only normal to consider what part of it is clay, hc or grass. It is fact that they met more times on clay as Fed was able to make it there to SF or F. Ad he got no chance to make this h2h little bit better on other surfaces, making it to finals, waiting there for Rafa never to show up. Considering that out of clay their h2h is different story it is normal to think that he could be able to make this h2h little bit better from his perspective. It would be still negative I guess as he is not that dominant out of clay as Rafa is on clay so it could be something like 22-17.


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post #32 of 143 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 09:08 AM
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Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

It's absurd to suggest to remove clay and then run away with the resulting H2H to disparage Nadal. But it's also valid to point out that in HC, Nadal does not have a positive H2H with Federer or Djokovic (also not positive with Murray if you count walkovers). In grass, he also does not have a positive H2H against Federer. Tennis surfaces play differently and it's fair to look at the H2H separately. But this statistic is impressive because it shows Nadal's just pure sheer dominance over everyone on clay. But for me, nothing more.
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post #33 of 143 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 09:25 AM
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Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

It's very impresive. The fact is that Nadal allways fallowed though on clay and Federer (before) and Djokovic (now) do get to finals to face him (as they would dominate the clay without Nadal), Nadal doesn't do the same (at least not as much) on other surfaces. And that can be pointed out in cases of Novak and Roger. For the other players, that doesn't stand bcs he is better than them on the faster surfaces too.

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post #34 of 143 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 10:07 AM
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Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

Nadal is obviously a clay god/king. Destroys every top ATP player in the clay H2H, On clay he has been very very consistent!

On hardcourts he has had very good performances but also a big amount of bad tournaments for a top4 player especially indoors. But still beating Federer at the AO twice, beating Djokovic at the USO, Olympics and WTF, Also beat Murray in big tournies is impressive. But he is less consistent at HC tournaments and most of his big wins were not in the same Nadal RG demolishing style.

Compare him to Federer and you see Federer is a lot more consistent against players ranked 3 and lower on surfaces where he has less results than Nadal, but he never beat Nadal at RG...

Both is impressive.
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post #35 of 143 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 10:12 AM
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Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

Very impressive even accounting for the clay bias (and of course his dominance on clay is itself impressive). Borg has similar stats I believe in terms of H2Hs with Top 10s & win-loss percentage. Part of the reason they both stand out is that they came into their primes very young & in Borg's case, retired before declining, while Nadal's decline has just started.

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post #36 of 143 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 10:15 AM
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Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

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Originally Posted by RForever View Post
Oh, come one! The thread is about Rafa overall h2h, not with Fed.
Well if you want to rate Rafas H2H with other top4 players, you got to compare him with his rivals (Federer) H2H.

17 GS is huge and that is only because Nadal has only got 11 and Sampras only 14.
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post #37 of 143 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 10:15 AM
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Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

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Originally Posted by Busterovic View Post
To me Nadal's record is absolutely mind blowing. I realize that the majority of Nadal's wins are on clay and the fact that he isn't consistently playing these guys on hard courts is a knock on his game but this mark cannot be denied.
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post #38 of 143 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 12:44 PM
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Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

Yes - it is really impressive. It shows he turns up for the big games more often than not.

If Nadal is in decline, as Sophocles states, then it will be interesting to see how this H2H changes over the next year or two: chances are Djokovic will be able to continue winning against him consistently, no? And maybe Murray more on hard courts. And of course Federer at the end of the season.
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post #39 of 143 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 01:08 PM
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Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

Amazing statistics from Nadal in the H2H department. Only Davydenko managed to play him a decent number of times and keep a positive record. I think in big matches, Nadal is just so consistently good. Even when he's not at his best he's very hard to beat. It always takes an exceptional performance to beat him, and it seems like nobody can provide such performances more often than 50% of the time. As much as these numbers are conditioned by a large percentage of matches on clay, discounting it just because it is heavily represented is of little use. The fact is, in head to head, Nadal has overcome any challenges he had to overcome. The only one remaining is Djokovic post 2011 off clay which is already a very niche and specific challenge.

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post #40 of 143 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 01:15 PM
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Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

People talk about clay as if it's a surface he's good on for no reason and it means nothing.
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post #41 of 143 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 01:20 PM
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Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

Most people aren't dismissing the statistic completely. They're merely stating a factual reason which contributes to why it looks so impressive on paper

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post #42 of 143 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 01:23 PM
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Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

Yup, RN's stats would most likely be completely different in the time where 3/4 slams could be classed as fast to very fast by today's standards. He'd also be facing better grass-court players in week 1 of Wimbledon.


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post #43 of 143 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 01:27 PM
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Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

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Originally Posted by GSMnadal View Post
No. I've been told yesterday Federer won almost all his AO titles on a super fast surface, and the grass was quick on all of his Wimbledon wins, and USO's as well.

So he has 2 slams, RG 09/AO 10. Impressive. I believe Rafa has more outside clay, no? But hey, Rafa is the one trick pony here. Federer just has the benefit that 3/4 slams are quick (Ao is debatable, it's still a hardcourt), and just one is slow each year.
You appear to have missed the at the end of my post.

I really couldn't care less about the diversity of any player's slam wins. A slam is a slam.
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post #44 of 143 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 01:29 PM
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Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

It's a compliment that people are willing to dismiss Nadal's clay record. "He's more or less unbeatable on the surface so there's no point in talking about it."

You must be pretty damn good to achieve that.
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post #45 of 143 (permalink) Old 07-24-2012, 05:07 PM
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Re: How impressive is Nadal's 50-29 record vs. rest of top 4?

Not as impressive as his clay-record vs. rest of the top 4.
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