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post #16 of 155 (permalink) Old 07-22-2012, 05:36 PM
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Re: Vulturing

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Originally Posted by misty1 View Post
it is funny that certain players like monaco and ferrer get blasted all the time and yet roddick who will probably win the tournament in atlanta with only 1 win over a top 50 player along the way gets a pass
The difference is, Roddick 1) is approaching retirement, 2) has won a bunch of big titles in the past thus proving himself capable of achieving great things. Monaco and, to a lesser extent, Ferrer are supposed to be at the peak of their careers, yet can only win MM titles.
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post #17 of 155 (permalink) Old 07-22-2012, 05:37 PM
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Re: Vulturing




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Originally Posted by AnnaK_4ever View Post
The difference is, Roddick 1) is approaching retirement, 2) has won a bunch of big titles in the past thus proving himself capable of achieving great things. Monaco and, to a lesser extent, Ferrer are supposed to be at the peak of their careers, yet can only win MM titles.
I like how Ferrer "can only win MM titles" and his ranking isn't mostly due to anything like making a semifinal at WTF and RG and two quarterfinals at AO and W.

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post #18 of 155 (permalink) Old 07-22-2012, 05:38 PM
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Re: Vulturing

If I´d be a pro I would vulture like there is no tomorrow!!
Since every surface is pretty much identical nowadays, we have a few top players who share all the biggest titles between them, there are no surface specialists at the top anymore. WHat´s left for the lower ranked players, ( those outside top 5), are 250 tournaments, and the occasional 500.
Back in the 90´s, for example, when there were fast grass courts, slow clay, indoor carpets, etc, you might see Sampras losing early at RG, and winning Wimbledon. Or Muster winnig RG and hardly making an effort at Wimbledon. This left room for lower ranked players to make deep runs at Slams, and other bigger tournaments.

This doesn´t happen anymore. Since the situation is what it is, I think it´s pointless to blame players like Almagro, MOnaco, Tipsy, Isner. They will probably never win SLams, but they are working hard and winning the tournaments that they can win. Those guys deserve some credit for maximising their potential.
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post #19 of 155 (permalink) Old 07-22-2012, 05:38 PM
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Re: Vulturing

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
I'll use two players to make my point here: Ferrer and Del Potro, using their 250 and 500 tournaments.

Ferrer:

Won Auckland by beating #74, #80, #24, #68.

Won Buenos Aires by beating #237, #162, #263, #85 and #11

Won Acapulco by beating #54, #50, #80 and #27

Barcelona final by beating #789, #69, #16 and #25.

Won Scrub Hertogenbosh by beating #244, #62, #112, #60 and #145

Won Bastaad by beating #128, #199, #69 and #10.


So basically 1800 of his 4100 ranking points for the year (almost 50%) come from tournaments where he faced scrubs. The only tournaments that even had top 10 players in the draw were Barcelona and Bastaad (who had Almagro, a guy who keeps going in and out of the top 10, not exactly a solid top 10er).

Verdict: VULTURE


Del Potro:

Rotterdam Final by beating #47, #105, #24 and Berdych (#7). Lost final to Federer.

Won Marseille by beating #40, #15, Tsonga (#6) and #50

Dubai semis by beating #20, #143, Tsonga (#5), lost to Federer.

Won Estoril by beating #90, #69, #22 and #18


So he entered Rotterdam with Federer and Berdych in the draw, Marseille with Tsonga and Tipsy in the draw, Dubai with 8 top 10 players in the draw. Estoril was admittedly weak with Gasquet and Wawrinka as second and third seeds, but still stronger than the vast majority of the tournaments Ferrer entered. Also feel free to compare the rankings of the players faced.

Verdict: NOT A VULTURE


It's really simple really.
for you maybe
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post #20 of 155 (permalink) Old 07-22-2012, 05:39 PM
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Re: Vulturing

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The thing about is he didn't know the list before the event, it's not like here are the players do you want to sign in or not. If they accept Wild Card that maybe something else.
They have a brain... They aren't deaf nor blind. I'm sure they hear what events some players are likely to play. I mean if we know Roger's or Rafa's schedules, I'm sure someone that is inside the world of tennis professionals could easily get the info about who is playing where each year most likely.

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post #21 of 155 (permalink) Old 07-22-2012, 05:39 PM
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Re: Vulturing

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Originally Posted by AnnaK_4ever View Post
The difference is, Roddick 1) is approaching retirement, 2) has won a bunch of big titles in the past thus proving himself capable of achieving great things. Monaco and, to a lesser extent, Ferrer are supposed to be at the peak of their careers, yet can only win MM titles.
who says he's appraoching reitrement and why does it matter what he's done in the past when we are talking about the here and now?
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post #22 of 155 (permalink) Old 07-22-2012, 05:39 PM
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Re: Vulturing

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Originally Posted by Orka_n View Post
Well put. Only clowns like Lenders and Tyson whine about vulturing.
agreed .Beating a proffesional is tough no matter what the case Those guys earned those titles .They also make money from it which is why they play .No harm in earning

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post #23 of 155 (permalink) Old 07-22-2012, 05:42 PM
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Re: Vulturing

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post

Ferrer:

Verdict: VULTURE
Lmao



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post #24 of 155 (permalink) Old 07-22-2012, 05:44 PM
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Re: Vulturing

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Originally Posted by misty1 View Post
for you maybe
The facts are all there. Del Potro enters non-mandatory tournaments with great players in the draw: Federer, Berdych, Tsonga, Tipsy, eighter top 10ers in Dubai = not a vulture.

Ferrer goes for the easy points by entering tournaments with very weak fields and no great players in the draw (the sole exception being Barcelona, but even then he got a great draw) = vulture.
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post #25 of 155 (permalink) Old 07-22-2012, 05:46 PM
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Re: Vulturing

Your vulture identification skills are quite exceptional good sir.



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post #26 of 155 (permalink) Old 07-22-2012, 05:47 PM
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Re: Vulturing

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
The facts are all there. Del Potro enters non-mandatory tournaments with great players in the draw: Federer, Berdych, Tsonga, Tipsy, eighter top 10ers in Dubai = not a vulture.

Ferrer goes for the easy points by entering tournaments with very weak fields and no great players in the draw (the sole exception being Barcelona, but even then he got a great draw) = vulture.
yes how dare ferrer do his job, which is what tennis is , his job.

your concept of vulturing really is quite funny

besides your credibility is damaged by your insistence of going in every ferrer thread and bitching and then supporting and cheering on tipsarevic for doing basically the same thing. If you want to talk about most of their points coming from 250's then look at tipsarevic.

oh..and at least ferrer pulled out of his event this week, what possible reason could tipsy had for playing in gstaad? think of it, it'll come to you..or maybe with your massive double standard it wont
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post #27 of 155 (permalink) Old 07-22-2012, 05:47 PM
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Re: Vulturing

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Originally Posted by Chirag View Post
agreed .Beating a proffesional is tough no matter what the case Those guys earned those titles .They also make money from it which is why they play .No harm in earning
By that reasoning, you'd be ok if Nadal played in tournaments like Nice, though he doesn't really need it in his CV. According to you, its ethical for him to hog everywhere for titles?

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post #28 of 155 (permalink) Old 07-22-2012, 05:48 PM
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Re: Vulturing

Mugro is the Vulture in chief in the 250 category, i think he had two uncountable 250.s at best. And pls do not mention Delpo in this category.

Ferrer,Almugro, Tipsy and Monaco are the biggest vultures right now and all are in the top 10 where Ferrer is the only worthy top 10 player with great Slam results etc to back it up.

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post #29 of 155 (permalink) Old 07-22-2012, 05:49 PM
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Re: Vulturing

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
The facts are all there. Del Potro enters non-mandatory tournaments with great players in the draw: Federer, Berdych, Tsonga, Tipsy, eighter top 10ers in Dubai = not a vulture.

Ferrer goes for the easy points by entering tournaments with very weak fields and no great players in the draw (the sole exception being Barcelona, but even then he got a great draw) = vulture.
Ferrer´s strongest surface is clay, so why on earth would he have played at Dubai instead of Acapulco? Both are 500 tournaments, and his chances at Acapulco are so much better. He also wasn´t going to get the same appearance fee as Federer, for example. It´s called smart, not vulturing.

ANd players can´t really affect their draws. If Ferrer happened to have an easy draw at Barcelona ( which is a 500), it´s not really his fault. It doesn´t really qualify as an argument here.
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post #30 of 155 (permalink) Old 07-22-2012, 05:51 PM
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Re: Vulturing

this term should be banned from MTF, really stupid

how can you vulture a 500 event.
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