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post #16 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-04-2012, 02:21 PM
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Re: The truth is

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Originally Posted by RNW View Post
I saw that tournament and I don't mean that those players from today 10-24 would have beaten Verkerk or Gaudio at this tournament,
but in other tournaments/years.

But you are right,
it is possible that i remember wrong.
I only watched Slams at this time and not the whole tour like the last years.

I just wanted to say that Berdych, Söderling, Del Potro or even Almagro, Monaco, Tipsarevic or Wawrinka had some great tournament where they played great and they all lost to Federer, Djokovic or nadal later.
Without those 3, they would have done better.
Doesn't mean that they're necessarily better tennis players. Verkerk and Gaudio were not just tennis players, they did not just live for tennis and nor did they constantly have a healthy body unlike most of today's players. Verkerk and Gaudio had ulterior distractions, they were not 'tennis robots'. They were both gifted with great and specific tennis relative ability and had distinctive and attractive game styles, unlike most of the players you're referring to within that specific rankings bracket. I don't think I've ever seen any of those players barring Soderling or Del Potro play tennis like Verkerk and Gaudio did in their respective greatest weeks.

And you can say that about any era, "without those 3, blah blah blah". It's not about "without those three", it's about beating the in form player, it's about showing no matter who is put in front of you, you can get the job done. That line is no scapegoat.
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post #17 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-04-2012, 02:24 PM
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Re: The truth is

Maybe these 3 players are so strong and dominant that no matter how good the rest are they make them look like mugs.



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post #18 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-04-2012, 02:27 PM
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Re: The truth is

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Originally Posted by Nole fan View Post
Maybe these 3 players are so strong and dominant that no matter how good the rest are they make them look like mugs.
People who can actually analyse the sport don't need a comparison to the top 3. They make each other look poor.
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post #19 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-04-2012, 02:39 PM
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Re: The truth is

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Originally Posted by Mountaindewslave View Post
Federer's greatness does not make up for an extremely poor era. nor do the other top few guys, Nadal and Djokovic. it's a pleasure to watch the best of all time (although Roger is years past his magical prime), but it's not at all impressive for a top few guys to be able dominate such a poor tour. you have a few guys who are great players and who would be great probably in any era and then you have the rest of the tour that is for the most part pathetic.

I mean for gods sake all the players in the top 20 have been practically incapable of making big upsets for the last half decade!! it takes a random surprise hitting to the heavens rank 100 player to make a huge shocker in a grand slam. the fact is that besides a fluke now and then and a few great players, this era is extremely weak. a good era has some degree of unexpectance of what will happen because there are so many good players.

a poor era like todays lacks surprise because so few players are extremely talented in either game or mind. beyond Federer being the best of all time and Nadal being incredible at times off of clay, the last decade of tennis has not been sublime, and this is coming from a guy who's favorite player ever is Nadal
so we must be witnessing the greatest era in the history of tennis in the WTA....!!


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post #20 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-04-2012, 04:46 PM
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Re: The truth is

Federer is 111-22 against eight guys (Roddick, Hewitt, Youzhny, Davydenko, Nalbandian, Ferrer, Malisse, and Fish) who are in the vicinity of 30 years old, Federer’s own age. Against the best of the next generation—Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray—Federer is 31-39.

Enough said.



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post #21 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-04-2012, 05:22 PM
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Re: The truth is

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Originally Posted by Nole fan View Post
Federer is 111-22 against eight guys (Roddick, Hewitt, Youzhny, Davydenko, Nalbandian, Ferrer, Malisse, and Fish) who are in the vicinity of 30 years old, Federer’s own age. Against the best of the next generation—Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray—Federer is 31-39.

Enough said.
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post #22 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-04-2012, 05:50 PM
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Re: The truth is

This has been a very good era from 08 till now, but no better than some other recent eras.
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post #23 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-04-2012, 05:54 PM
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Re: The truth is

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Originally Posted by Nole fan View Post
Federer is 111-22 against eight guys (Roddick, Hewitt, Youzhny, Davydenko, Nalbandian, Ferrer, Malisse, and Fish) who are in the vicinity of 30 years old, Federer’s own age. Against the best of the next generation—Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray—Federer is 31-39.

Enough said.
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post #24 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-04-2012, 06:06 PM
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Re: The truth is

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Originally Posted by Nole fan View Post
Federer is 111-22 against eight guys (Roddick, Hewitt, Youzhny, Davydenko, Nalbandian, Ferrer, Malisse, and Fish) who are in the vicinity of 30 years old, Federer’s own age. Against the best of the next generation—Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray—Federer is 31-39.

Enough said.
Federer is almost 31 years old.

Would Federer still be 31-39 had he been born in 1987?

Federer really hasn't been close to his best since 2007, when these guys were rising.
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post #25 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-04-2012, 06:50 PM
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Re: The truth is

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Federer is almost 31 years old.

Would Federer still be 31-39 had he been born in 1987?

Federer really hasn't been close to his best since 2007, when these guys were rising.
Really? Because I've seen him blow out the rest of the guys since 2007.



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post #26 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-04-2012, 07:28 PM
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Re: The truth is

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Originally Posted by Nole fan View Post
Really? Because I've seen him blow out the rest of the guys since 2007.
2007 he wasn't losing to random players. Since then he has lost to his pigeons like Roddick, Fish, Blake, Gonzalez, etc. to name a few. He is not nearly as consistent match to match. He is half a step slower which leads to a lot more shanks and UEs. Even his serve speed has dropped maybe 5mph on average. I remember when Federer used to hit 130mph serves once in a while. Now I barely see him hitting 125.

That record of 31-39 actually shows how great he is. He can still COMPETE with the young guns! In about 4 years when Djoko, Murray and Nadal start losing to some new player, will that mean that that new era is STRONGER? Because by your logic the new gen who will then start beating declining Nole, Andy and Rafa will be greater... am I right?

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post #27 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-04-2012, 07:55 PM
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Re: The truth is

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2007 he wasn't losing to random players. Since then he has lost to his pigeons like Roddick, Fish, Blake, Gonzalez, etc. to name a few. He is not nearly as consistent match to match. He is half a step slower which leads to a lot more shanks and UEs. Even his serve speed has dropped maybe 5mph on average. I remember when Federer used to hit 130mph serves once in a while. Now I barely see him hitting 125.

That record of 31-39 actually shows how great he is. He can still COMPETE with the young guns! In about 4 years when Djoko, Murray and Nadal start losing to some new player, will that mean that that new era is STRONGER? Because by your logic the new gen who will then start beating declining Nole, Andy and Rafa will be greater... am I right?
Well it will be equally strong if these new 3 or 4 guys win 22 of the next 23 slams.



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post #28 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-04-2012, 08:01 PM
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Re: The truth is

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nole fan View Post
Federer is 111-22 against eight guys (Roddick, Hewitt, Youzhny, Davydenko, Nalbandian, Ferrer, Malisse, and Fish) who are in the vicinity of 30 years old, Federer’s own age. Against the best of the next generation—Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray—Federer is 31-39.

Enough said.
So when you are at your peak you dominate the field, while when past your peak you do not dominate players who are at their peaks.

Rather expected.

The current greatness league of active players in order of achievements to date (a factual comparison rather than fan biased assessment):

Federer 17 GS, 6 Year End Masters, 24 Master Series.
Nadal 14 GS, 27 Master Series, 1 Olympic Gold.
Djokovic 9 GS, 4 Year End Masters, 24 Master Series.


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post #29 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-04-2012, 08:10 PM
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Re: The truth is

3 players don't make an era, but 1 do.

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post #30 of 47 (permalink) Old 07-04-2012, 08:12 PM
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Re: The truth is

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Originally Posted by DrJules View Post
So when you are at your peak you dominate the field, while when past your peak you do not dominate players who are at their peaks.

Rather expected.
Yup.

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