Can Top Players be Beaten at Their Own Game? - MensTennisForums.com

 
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-04-2012, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
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Can Top Players be Beaten at Their Own Game?

We saw a great example of this today. Juan Monaco took on his friend Rafael Nadal and he was burnt to shreds. Yet Monaco plays a very similar game to Nadal- grinding and long rallies. Nadal simply did everything a little better. And Monaco struggled to win a single game.

Would Monaco have troubled Nadal more if he did not play the same way as him?

Is it possible to beat the top players at their own game? Nadal and Djokovic especially have rounded up their games so much that they do everything better than the other players. You never see Nadal losing to grinders, because he is the best grinder. Djokovic similarily rarely loses to aggressive baseliners.

Can you beat players like them at their own game? I say no. Unless the challenger plays WAY outside their comfort zone.

When Almagro and Ferrer/Murray take on Clay King, they must not try to outgrind him as they often tend to do. Do you agree?
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-04-2012, 09:01 PM
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Re: Can Top Players be Beaten at Their Own Game?

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Originally Posted by Orange Wombat View Post
We saw a great example of this today. Juan Monaco took on his friend Rafael Nadal and he was burnt to shreds. Yet Monaco plays a very similar game to Nadal- grinding and long rallies. Nadal simply did everything a little better. And Monaco struggled to win a single game.

Would Monaco have troubled Nadal more if he did not play the same way as him?

Is it possible to beat the top players at their own game? Nadal and Djokovic especially have rounded up their games so much that they do everything better than the other players. You never see Nadal losing to grinders, because he is the best grinder. Djokovic similarily rarely loses to aggressive baseliners.

Can you beat players like them at their own game? I say no. Unless the challenger plays WAY outside their comfort zone.

When Almagro and Ferrer/Murray take on Clay King, they must not try to outgrind him as they often tend to do. Do you agree?
I say the opposite, people try to play too differently against Nadal. They try to go for impossible winners.

Just put loads of effort in in the gym and out-grind him, that's all there is to it.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-04-2012, 09:03 PM
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Re: Can Top Players be Beaten at Their Own Game?

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I say the opposite, people try to play too differently against Nadal. They try to go for impossible winners.

Just put loads of effort in in the gym and out-grind him, that's all there is to it.
true - Murray succeeded in blasting Nadal of the court in 2008 at the USO but that is almost impossible unless your name is federer and you are playing indoors.

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He probably just hangs about in 2nd place protecting himself with 3 bananas whilst waiting for the person in the lead to get blue shelled.
1. Murray wins Wimbledon 2016 after Djokovic is blue shelled by Querrey. Thanks Querrey!

2. Murray wins Olympic Gold for the second time after Djokovic is blue shelled by Del Potro. Thanks Del Potro!

3. Murray wins US Open 2016 after Djokovic is blue shelled by [pending]. Thanks [pending]!

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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-04-2012, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Can Top Players be Beaten at Their Own Game?

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I say the opposite, people try to play too differently against Nadal. They try to go for impossible winners.

Just put loads of effort in in the gym and out-grind him, that's all there is to it.
Your opinion matches your name
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-04-2012, 09:05 PM
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Re: Can Top Players be Beaten at Their Own Game?

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Originally Posted by out_grinder View Post
I say the opposite, people try to play too differently against Nadal. They try to go for impossible winners.

Just put loads of effort in in the gym and out-grind him, that's all there is to it.
Oh come on! Don't you think that if it was that easy they all would be pulling weights in the gym day and night? Of course not. There is much more to Nadal's game.



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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-04-2012, 09:09 PM
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Re: Can Top Players be Beaten at Their Own Game?

yes Davydenko beating Djokobitch from the baseline...
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-04-2012, 09:13 PM
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Re: Can Top Players be Beaten at Their Own Game?

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yes Davydenko beating Djokobitch from the baseline...
And losing 5 times

“There’s so many athletes, tennis players around the world,” he continued, trying to put his life into some kind of perspective, “they want to be the best in what they do. They want to succeed. Many of them, they don’t succeed in the end. I’m fortunate to have this opportunity and succeed.”
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-04-2012, 09:15 PM
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Re: Can Top Players be Beaten at Their Own Game?

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And losing 5 times
Well.. yeah of course there have to be something funny round here you know , no ? cause here alot of tards are unleashing their hatred ...
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-04-2012, 09:16 PM
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Re: Can Top Players be Beaten at Their Own Game?

Delpos h2h with tsonga, soderling and berdych.

Juan Martin Del Potro


But he lost 23 times against you.
's right. We have to also throw into the mix. But I do not think it is currently the decisive factor. But he has achieved in my opinion too much. Maybe this is crucial if I move him even closer after major victories. But 14 or 17 Grand Slam titles is a significant difference. At the present time there is no question that he must be the greater player than me.

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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-04-2012, 09:22 PM
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Re: Can Top Players be Beaten at Their Own Game?

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Delpos h2h with tsonga, soderling and berdych.
And Cilic.

You can't overpower the king of power tennis (in normal circumstances)

Just like you can't outgrind Nadal (in normal circumstances as well).
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-04-2012, 09:28 PM
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Re: Can Top Players be Beaten at Their Own Game?

Jim Courier said it best. When you go out against a top player you have two choices.

You either play your normal tennis in your comfort zone which will probably give you a respectful 3-set loss (in GSs) OR you go OUT of your comfort zone and try something different.

You can then either lose and look like a challenger level player in the score OR you might just pull it off ala Soderling 2009.

We saw what Goffin (and Ungur/Mahut) did against Roger. Even if he's not playing his best tennis, winning a set off him is never easy. They went for their shots stayed positive and aggressive and they came somewhat close. Who knows what might have happened if Fed had gone 0-2 against the Belgian kid.


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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-04-2012, 09:32 PM
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Re: Can Top Players be Beaten at Their Own Game?

You do have to go out of your comfort zone and go for shots that you wouldn't normally. But a player can do that within the limits of their game and not actually be reckless. Some guys struggle with that balance. The goal is to make the opponent react to your game and not the other way around, so to cause an upset, a player has to be proactive and seek to take it to their higher ranked opponent at any given possibility, whenever the correct opportunity arises, key word being CORRECT. Meaning taking chances but doing so with some sort of train of thought.
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