Endless Federer-Nadal debates - Page 85 - MensTennisForums.com

View Poll Results: How will it look?
Nadal more than 15 matches ahead. 108 40.15%
Nadal 13-14 matches ahead. 25 9.29%
Nadal 11-12 matches ahead. 20 7.43%
Nadal 9-10 matches ahead. 20 7.43%
Nadal 7-8 matches ahead. 20 7.43%
Nadal 5-6 matches ahead. 19 7.06%
Nadal 3-4 matches ahead. 5 1.86%
Nadal 1-2 matches ahead. 1 0.37%
Equal 4 1.49%
Federer ahead 47 17.47%
Voters: 269. You may not vote on this poll

 
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post #1261 of 4037 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 08:23 PM
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Re: Is Nadal more talented than Federer?

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I don't care if he's more talented or not, he's the better player and that's what counts.
This is very true.
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post #1262 of 4037 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 08:24 PM
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Re: Is Nadal more talented than Federer?

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Originally Posted by Alex999 View Post
Where is a 'no' option? troll thread and I can't believe you guys are actually discussing this.
Wow I agree with Alex for once.

Roger Federer

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Fed's groundstrokes never were that good to begin with.
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post #1263 of 4037 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 08:26 PM
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Re: Is Nadal more talented than Federer?

Now that said about Nadal, his body is a great talent ... but also a big liability, because I agree with many Nadalfans that his knee problem is more about bad luck than about the fact that his game is physical (although I still think having heard physios about that that his steps on the ground are very bad for his legs, it's not only about a "defensive running style", it's also about how you run, and how you use your legs, and for that I think that his footwork and game are "too physical")

His congenital problems with his legs, the fact that his feet were too small ... are well-documented.

In my eyes, he's the Achilles of the Iliad : a semi-God with a "Achille's heel".

And Fed in my eyes is the Hector of the Iliad (I even made fun imagining what the other players were : Djokovic was Pâris if I remember well and Moya was Patroclus )

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post #1264 of 4037 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 08:26 PM
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Re: Is Nadal more talented than Federer?

Federer is the more talented tennis player, Nadal is the more talented athlete.

Basically, Federer was born to play tennis, he understands the game like no other and thus can play at maybe the highest level the sport has ever seen (during his prime) without putting much strain on his body, which is why he could conceivably remain a top 10 player until his late 30s, 40yo. Nadal, on the other hand, could probably succeed in a lot of different sports with his freakish athletic ability/talent; he's probably the most natural player ever on a claycourt, but outside of clay he has definitely benefitted from playing in an era where surfaces are slow enough to let his main attributes (speed, stamina, athleticism) shine. He most definitely can't play at a top level as 'effortlessly' as Federer, he's really putting his body on the line out there with outrageous physical feats. Tennis doesn't come as natural to him as it does to Federer.

With that said, Federer is an amazing athlete too, and Nadal has a lot of talent for tennis of course, don't let his unortodox technique fool you. The reason why both have such an amazing resumé is because they're beyong gifted in one of these aspects (Federer tennis talent, Nadal athletic ability) but also extraordinary in the other aspect, and both extremely strong mentally.

Last edited by Mark Lenders; 11-26-2012 at 08:31 PM.
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post #1265 of 4037 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 08:30 PM
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Re: Is Nadal more talented than Federer?

Clever thread is clever

Allez!
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post #1266 of 4037 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSMnadal View Post
I don't care if he's more talented or not, he's the better player and that's what counts.
Proof?

In b 4 18-10.

8th day of July 2012: 7-time Wimbledon champion!

Once upon a time there was a myth about strong and weak eras. On this glorious day the clownery was eventually unmasked: 30 y.o. past-prime daddy Fed became #1 once again in the supposed strong "Spartan" era with his rivals at their peak.
And they all lived happily ever after.
Long live King Federer!


17 Grand Slam titles
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post #1267 of 4037 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 08:31 PM
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Re: Is Nadal more talented than Federer?

one evidence in my eyes that Nadal is greatly talented : his game is greatly effective, esp. his spinnning abilities ... but why can no other player play the same way ?

Fed has a great technique but which others can approach or emulate, see Dimitrov for his shots, "only" he lacks his footwork.

Nadal ? nobody can play like him !

Both because of his athletic abilities and his hand abilities imo. I think you need to be incredibly strong to play his game so effectively (usually players who play with a lot of spin tend to play too short, that's always been their problem, it also was a problem for Nadal initially on hardcourts).

As for the legend "Nadal could only play on grass because he worked a lot and completely changed his game" has he really changed his game that much ? and at just 17 years old (yes the age Quinzi will be in 2 months) he already reached 3rd round in Wimbledon defeating Mario Ancic ! His movement on grass has always been genious !

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post #1268 of 4037 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 08:34 PM
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Re: Is Nadal more talented than Federer?

If Dimitrov lacking for Fed just in footwork he would already be top 10 player for years

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post #1269 of 4037 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 08:36 PM
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Re: Is Nadal more talented than Federer?

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Nadal ? nobody can play like him !
Who would want that?

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post #1270 of 4037 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 08:41 PM
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Re: Is Nadal more talented than Federer?

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Who would want that?
from what I read a lot of children and adolescents are big fans and try to emulate him : I do sincerely hope (and fortunately think) that nobody can emulate him

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post #1271 of 4037 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 08:42 PM
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Re: Is Nadal more talented than Federer?

I'm pretty sure this has been discussed fought over many times with each thread getting closed after a while. It'll probably be a few more pages before this thread combusts as well.

The obvious answer is that in terms of tennis talent, it is Federer above Nadal by a good margin, while physical talent certainly Nadal takes the cake in general. However, both aspects, especially physical ability, are impossible to truly analyze. Federer never tries to outgrind his opponents, so perhaps his physical talent/abilities were even overrated in a way during his prime years but coincidentally working perfectly for his play style. While at the same time, Rafa's true tennis abilties are really tough to determine too for the opposite reason. He doesn't play many rallies where he places himself in a really uncomfortable situation requiring him to make some magic as often as maybe a Federer for example does. Sure, Rafa produces mesmerizing passing shots, but I think that has more to his athletic ability rather than his tennis abilties.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duong View Post
one evidence in my eyes that Nadal is greatly talented : his game is greatly effective, esp. his spinnning abilities ... but why can no other player play the same way ?

Fed has a great technique but which others can approach or emulate, see Dimitrov for his shots, "only" he lacks his footwork.

Nadal ? nobody can play like him !

Both because of his athletic abilities and his hand abilities imo. I think you need to be incredibly strong to play his game so effectively (usually players who play with a lot of spin tend to play too short, that's always been their problem, it also was a problem for Nadal initially on hardcourts).

As for the legend "Nadal could only play on grass because he worked a lot and completely changed his game" has he really changed his game that much ? and at just 17 years old (yes the age Quinzi will be in 2 months) he already reached 3rd round in Wimbledon defeating Mario Ancic ! His movement on grass has always been genious !
The spinning ability... obviously much credit has to go for Rafa, but without a doubt, technology is what has allowed him to do such a thing. Even then, there are players on tour who can rival the amount of spin and pace he places on the ball. His success doesn't stem from being "unique" but rather a combination of mental and physical abilities.

The Wimbledon success, you have to be quite soft to say such a thing. Yes, it was a very good effort on Rafa's part of course, but he got a very good draw. Ancic is obviously a great opponent, but at that point of Mario's career, the only notable thing was still defeating Federer the previous year. Either way, if one wants to compare, Federer for example drew Jiri Novak and Kafelnikov the first times he went to Wimbledon. Rafa played Lee Childs in the second round, just another hyped and lost Brit. Either way, I would still be entirely skeptical of Rafa's success against serve and volleyers on the grass of the previous decades. Rafa doesn't have a return like Agassi, and his baseline game heavily relies on the other player willing to try to out grind him, not to mention how far he stands back regardless of the slight adjustment he makes when he plays on grass.

Federer / Haas / Safin / Gaudio / Kuerten / Youzhny / Nadal / Gonzalez / Ljubicic / Hewitt / Soderling / Wawrinka / Coria / Nalbandian / Kohlschreiber

Last edited by HKz; 11-26-2012 at 09:00 PM.
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post #1272 of 4037 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 08:48 PM
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Re: Is Nadal more talented than Federer?

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look at the threads I started there is one or two about that.

Ahletic ability is a part of tennis ability imo. There are also some inner mental skills.

But yes the whole problem comes from the definition of "talent" : for me it means "natural gift", for others it mostly means "hand talent" ... as if anybody could reach a great physical or mental level just by work, I agree with you, that's completely wrong. And I think that many skills which are considered as "talent" are more about technique ... and technique can be worked about.

Tennis used to be much less physical and in that time the notion of "talent" which people usually have in tennis was much much more suitable. But tennis has completely changed : tennis is not a welcoming place for Nastases anymore.
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Federer is the more talented tennis player, Nadal is the more talented athlete.

Basically, Federer was born to play tennis, he understands the game like no other and thus can play at maybe the highest level the sport has ever seen (during his prime) without putting much strain on his body, which is why he could conceivably remain a top 10 player until his late 30s, 40yo. Nadal, on the other hand, could probably succeed in a lot of different sports with his freakish athletic ability/talent; he's probably the most natural player ever on a claycourt, but outside of clay he has definitely benefitted from playing in an era where surfaces are slow enough to let his main attributes (speed, stamina, athleticism) shine. He most definitely can't play at a top level as 'effortlessly' as Federer, he's really putting his body on the line out there with outrageous physical feats. Tennis doesn't come as natural to him as it does to Federer.

With that said, Federer is an amazing athlete too, and Nadal has a lot of talent for tennis of course, don't let his unortodox technique fool you. The reason why both have such an amazing resumé is because they're beyong gifted in one of these aspects (Federer tennis talent, Nadal athletic ability) but also extraordinary in the other aspect, and both extremely strong mentally.
Great posts. Manuel, you sumed it up perfectly.

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post #1273 of 4037 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 09:01 PM
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Re: Is Nadal more talented than Federer?

Did you guys even read the poll options? Congratulations, the troll is well fed.
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post #1274 of 4037 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 09:06 PM
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Re: Is Nadal more talented than Federer?

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Great posts. Manuel, you sumed it up perfectly.
Thanks. Always glad to lend my services as an observant and unbiased analyst of the game and its players
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post #1275 of 4037 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 09:09 PM
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Re: Is Nadal more talented than Federer?

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Thanks. Always glad to lend my services as an observant and unbiased analyst of the game and its players
How cute. 2 clowns licking their asses.
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