Endless Federer-Nadal debates - Page 17 - MensTennisForums.com
View Poll Results: How will it look?
Nadal more than 15 matches ahead. 108 40.15%
Nadal 13-14 matches ahead. 25 9.29%
Nadal 11-12 matches ahead. 20 7.43%
Nadal 9-10 matches ahead. 20 7.43%
Nadal 7-8 matches ahead. 20 7.43%
Nadal 5-6 matches ahead. 19 7.06%
Nadal 3-4 matches ahead. 5 1.86%
Nadal 1-2 matches ahead. 1 0.37%
Equal 4 1.49%
Federer ahead 47 17.47%
Voters: 269. You may not vote on this poll

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post #241 of 4037 (permalink) Old 12-09-2010, 12:35 AM
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Re: Nadal leads Federer 3-1 outdoor hardcourts, while Federer leads 3-0 indoor

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Originally Posted by Jaz View Post
You need to learn something about statistics.

The clay has more "observations" hence the validity of saying "Nadal is better than Federer on Clay" is clear.

However, based on 3 observations on hardcourt it really means nothing. To put this into perspective.
Say France vs Germany has played 3 times in past decade. France won 2 out of 3. Is this a clear indication that France is CLEARLY better? Now consider that France and Germany has played 12 times. And France wins 8 times, and Germany 4 times. Then you can say that France is the better team.
You wouldn't be saying that if you never saw Rafa/Federer play indoors. The hardcourt h2h wouldn't strike you as being any closer than the clay h2h if you had no knowledge of their indoor meetings. You would be seeing their hardcourt results not unlike their clay meetings.

Nadal won 2009 Australian Open 7-5 3-6 7-6(3) 3-6 6-2 no different to 2006 Roland Garros 1-6 6-1 6-4 7-6(4) or 2007 Roland Garros 6-3 4-6 6-3 6-4 (federer 1 of 17 breakpoint conversion rate).

Nadal won 2004 ATP Masters Miami 6-3 6-3 (federer 0 of 0 breakpoints converted), no different to 2008 Roland Garros 6-1 6-3 6-0.

Fact is, while many people point to the 2009 Australian Open as a 'choke', even Federer's many losses to Rafa on clay were extremely close and the result of mental shortcomings more than physical. It was never about the surface. Yet throw in the indoor results and suddenly Federer has a form of tennis he can dominate 3-0, excellent breakpoint conversion rate included.
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post #242 of 4037 (permalink) Old 12-09-2010, 01:00 AM
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Re: Nadal leads Federer 3-1 outdoor hardcourts, while Federer leads 3-0 indoor

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Originally Posted by nsidhan View Post
24 yr old apparent GOAT Nadal having 5 weeks off could not beat 29 yr old senior citizen cry baby ballerina Federer at this year's WTF. What a shame!

Brilliant.
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post #243 of 4037 (permalink) Old 12-09-2010, 01:08 AM
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Re: Nadal leads Federer 3-1 outdoor hardcourts, while Federer leads 3-0 indoor

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Originally Posted by nsidhan View Post
24 yr old apparent GOAT Nadal having 5 weeks off could not beat 29 yr old senior citizen cry baby ballerina Federer at this year's WTF. What a shame!
No surprise. Federer leads Rafa 3-0 on indoor hardcourt, there was never any doubt Federer was going to win (although Rafa did have all the momentum with the 6-3 2nd set, so no doubt a lot of people thought Federer was about to lose). Even the weakest version of Rafa beats Federer on outdoor hardcourt, the 2009 Australian Open with Rafa playing the longest AO singles match on record 5 hour 14 minutes vs the grueling baseliner Verdasco. Then Rafa having one day off while Federer had 2 days off....and still an easy 6-2 fifth set in the Final
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post #244 of 4037 (permalink) Old 12-09-2010, 06:48 AM
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Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

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Maybe in fantasy SdG land. Unfortunately this is Earth. What seems absolutely and utterly true in your brain doesn't always translate to the world around you. Just so you know.
are you that dumb? slams on 3 totally different surfaces is any day greater than slams on just 2 surfaces........

there are quite a few players who won slams on just 2 surfaces in the same calender year but there is only one in the history of the sport to have accomplished 3 on all 3 major surfaces.......
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post #245 of 4037 (permalink) Old 12-09-2010, 07:52 AM
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Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

Who the hell "unredded" that miaow double account?!?!
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post #246 of 4037 (permalink) Old 12-09-2010, 08:29 AM
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Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

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Originally Posted by Start da Game View Post
are you that dumb? slams on 3 totally different surfaces is any day greater than slams on just 2 surfaces........

there are quite a few players who won slams on just 2 surfaces in the same calender year but there is only one in the history of the sport to have accomplished 3 on all 3 major surfaces.......
No, it isn't. Three slams are three slams, period. Anything extra you wish to attach to it is your own personal invention; furthermore, the claim that QFWWW is superior to three slams and reaching all four finals and winning the year end is utterly arbitrary and borderline delusional. Whatever subjective nonsense you wish to attach to x achievement has no basis in objective reality. Just so you know. The goal of a player is to win tournaments and barring that to get as far as he can in said tournaments; not to try and do something that wasn't even possible until '78.

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post #247 of 4037 (permalink) Old 12-09-2010, 08:36 AM
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Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

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No, it isn't. Three slams are three slams, period. Anything extra you wish to attach to it is your own personal invention; furthermore, the claim that QFWWW is superior to three slams and reaching all four finals and winning the year end is utterly arbitrary and borderline delusional. Whatever subjective nonsense you wish to attach to x achievement has no basis in objective reality. Just so you know. The goal of a player is to win tournaments and barring that to get as far as he can in said tournaments; not to try and do something that wasn't even possible until '78.
3 slams on 3 major surfaces in the same year........tell me when did that happen before........

don't try too hard........you just don't have a shout in this one.......if it was easier than a FWWW, someone would have done it before and also there wouldn't be a reason for rod laver to laugh his ass off at your claims, for his WWWW not once but twice........
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post #248 of 4037 (permalink) Old 12-09-2010, 05:36 PM
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Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

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Originally Posted by Start da Game View Post
3 slams on 3 major surfaces in the same year........tell me when did that happen before........

don't try too hard........you just don't have a shout in this one.......if it was easier than a FWWW, someone would have done it before and also there wouldn't be a reason for rod laver to laugh his ass off at your claims, for his WWWW not once but twice........
welcome back!!!

So what your trying to say is that Nadal's 2010 season isn't just better than Fed's 2007 but better than any year Fed has had because Fed's best years never had 3 slams on 3 surfaces.


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post #249 of 4037 (permalink) Old 12-09-2010, 05:54 PM
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Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

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Sophocles, you'll have to put up a warning sign at the beginning of your posts, so new-account trolls like miaow can understand you're being sarcastic, heh
I'm so naive. But that Sophocles posts same stuff in every thread, so if that's irony it must be very deeply hidden; the irony that borders with the truth.

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Who the hell "unredded" that miaow double account?!?!
Dear, I strongly recommend you to refrain from posting on this board during your PMS days, because I'm yet to find at least one post of yours when you're not attacking someone.
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post #250 of 4037 (permalink) Old 12-09-2010, 05:55 PM
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Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

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Originally Posted by Start da Game View Post
3 slams on 3 major surfaces in the same year........tell me when did that happen before........

don't try too hard........you just don't have a shout in this one.......if it was easier than a FWWW, someone would have done it before and also there wouldn't be a reason for rod laver to laugh his ass off at your claims, for his WWWW not once but twice........
Three slams on three surfaces has only not be done because it was impossible for the first 90 years of tennis' existence. Call me when Nadal reaches all four finals. Until then your argument is, at best, fanboyism, at worse, delusional.

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post #251 of 4037 (permalink) Old 12-09-2010, 05:56 PM
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Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

LOL at Start Da Game suggesting 2007 is a clown field. The only difference between 2007 and 2010 is Murray and Soderling, two players he HATES!!!

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post #252 of 4037 (permalink) Old 12-09-2010, 05:58 PM
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Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

WTF and one more GS final, fewer losses overall, not much to debate
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post #253 of 4037 (permalink) Old 12-09-2010, 06:17 PM
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Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

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Not to mention the fact that last time I checked, Federer was the first player to win 3 consecutive slams on 3 different surfaces.
hard, grass, hard -vs- clay, grass, hard

hmmmmmm
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post #254 of 4037 (permalink) Old 12-09-2010, 06:32 PM
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Re: Poll: Nadals 2010 season vs Federers 2007 season

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Originally Posted by miaow View Post
hard, grass, hard -vs- clay, grass, hard

hmmmmmm
Ugh you're right. I'm going to delete that post. Had clearly blanked the 2009 A.O. final from my memory.

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post #255 of 4037 (permalink) Old 12-10-2010, 04:56 AM
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Re: Nadal leads Federer 3-1 outdoor hardcourts, while Federer leads 3-0 indoor

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Originally Posted by nadal_slam_king View Post
No, the 3-1 outdoor compared with 0-3 indoor is far more relevant than the clay stat. Because if you take away Federer's indoor dominance then Rafa leads Federer 3-1 on hardcourt and that would mean Rafa has a 75% winning record over Federer on hardcourt
ah yes, if you take away all the matches fed won on hc nadal dominates, thats a good point. and if you only include clay matches played between them in which the stadium served hot dogs, fed dominates nadal 2-0 on clay.

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The clay has more "observations" hence the validity of saying "Nadal is better than Federer on Clay" is clear.
clearer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaz View Post
Now consider that France and Germany has played 12 times. And France wins 8 times, and Germany 4 times. Then you can say that France is the better team.
no
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