top 10 in early 1999 vs top 10 in 2012 (an observation, not a battle) - MensTennisForums.com
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post #1 of 68 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 11:36 PM Thread Starter
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top 10 in early 1999 vs top 10 in 2012 (an observation, not a battle)

No this is not a war between eras, but just an observation about how the disparity within the top 10 now is absolutely incredible compared to the years I remember as the most "egalitarian" which was the chaotic 98-99 years. Look at how close the top 10 was then in points:

15.03 1999

1 Moya, Carlos (ESP)-------------3,484
2 Sampras, Pete (USA)------------3,447
3 Kafelnikov, Yevgeny (RUS)------3,382
4 Corretja, Alex (ESP)-----------3,250
5 Rafter, Patrick (AUS)----------3,115
6 Henman, Tim (GBR)--------------2,826
7 Krajicek, Richard (NED)--------2,677
8 Rios, Marcelo (CHI)------------2,434
9 Agassi, Andre (USA)------------2,376
10 Martin, Todd (USA)------------2,300

Now, 19.03 2012:

1 Djokovic, Novak (SRB)----------12,670
2 Nadal, Rafael (ESP)------------10,175
3 Federer, Roger (SUI)-----------9,350
4 Murray, Andy (GBR)-------------7,450
5 Ferrer, David (ESP)------------4,700
6 Tsonga, Jo-Wilfried (FRA)------4,535
7 Berdych, Tomas (CZE)-----------3,860
8 Fish, Mardy (USA)--------------2,910
9 Tipsarevic, Janko (SRB)--------2,730
10 Isner, John (USA)-------------2,675

In 1999 the nr1 was 12% ahead of the nr5, in 2012 the nr1 is 170% ahead of the nr5.

In 1999 the nr1 was 51% ahead of the nr10 and in 2012 the nr1 is 373% ahead of the nr10.

Further more look at the slam results from AO 98 to AO 99:

AO 98 semifinalists: Kucera, Korda, Rios, Escude (Final: Korda df Rios)

RG 98 semfinalists: Mantilla, Moya, Corretja, Pioline (Final: Moya df Corretja)

Wimbledon 98 semfinalists: Henman, Krajicek, Ivanisevic, Sampras (Final: Sampras df Ivanisevic)

Usopen 98 semifinalists: Sampras, Rafter, Moya, Philippoussis) (Final: Rafter df Philippoussis)

AO 99 semifinalists: Enqvist, Kafelnikov, Lapentti, Haas (Final Kafelnikov df Enqvist)

So we have 10 different finalists in 5 finals (which would continue with Agassi df Medvedev), we have 18 different semifinalists in 20 semifinal spots (still found 4 new semifinalists in RG 99 with Agassi, Medvedev, Hrbaty, Meligeni) ....

Ofcourse in our own era we have between AO 2010 to AO 2011 4 different finalists in 5 finals and 6 semifinalists in 20 semifinal spots....

What do you prefer, the chaotic state of tennis without a dominant force which has the advantage of producing unexpected results and brings unpredictability to the sport (thereby excitement) or the brutal struggle for domination between 3-4 extremly dominant forces which reduces tennis to only be about 3-4 individuals, but also never allows the center stage in tennis to be reduced to mediocrity?

All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.

Last edited by sexybeast; 03-19-2012 at 11:59 PM.
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post #2 of 68 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 11:45 PM
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Re: top 10 in early 1999 vs top 10 in 2012 (an observation, not a battle)

I've always like the chaotic state idk why ..... maybe cause i see many talents around fighting for it hardly
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post #3 of 68 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 11:47 PM
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Re: top 10 in early 1999 vs top 10 in 2012 (an observation, not a battle)

I would love to see more younger players doing big stuff, but I can only dream about that this days

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post #4 of 68 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 11:56 PM
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Re: top 10 in early 1999 vs top 10 in 2012 (an observation, not a battle)

This shows us Berdych (#7) would be #1 in 1999!

It's a strong era right now.
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post #5 of 68 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 11:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: top 10 in early 1999 vs top 10 in 2012 (an observation, not a battle)

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This shows us Berdych (#7) would be #1 in 1999!

It's a strong era right now.
The points dont correspond what value they had in 99.

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post #6 of 68 (permalink) Old 03-20-2012, 12:00 AM
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Re: top 10 in early 1999 vs top 10 in 2012 (an observation, not a battle)

that's some good top 10 in 1999.......except Todd Martin
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post #7 of 68 (permalink) Old 03-20-2012, 12:01 AM
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Re: top 10 in early 1999 vs top 10 in 2012 (an observation, not a battle)

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The points dont correspond what value they had in 99.
Cool, so if you double the values, Murray would still be #1
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post #8 of 68 (permalink) Old 03-20-2012, 12:09 AM
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Re: top 10 in early 1999 vs top 10 in 2012 (an observation, not a battle)

the WTA has been very chaotic for the past few years, no clear #1, and the top 10 has ben very close, and it's been terrible.

I don't prefer it been as predictable as it is now for the men with the same 4 players usually being in the semis, but being chaotic like the WTA is would be horrible

Middle ground is better, where the top players usually asert themselves as the big guns but it's still common for someone outside the big 4 to make a run

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post #9 of 68 (permalink) Old 03-20-2012, 12:10 AM
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Re: top 10 in early 1999 vs top 10 in 2012 (an observation, not a battle)

I do wish it was more unpredictable at the top.

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post #10 of 68 (permalink) Old 03-20-2012, 12:14 AM Thread Starter
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Re: top 10 in early 1999 vs top 10 in 2012 (an observation, not a battle)

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Cool, so if you double the values, Murray would still be #1
Yes, Murray would by far be the nr1 in 1999.03.15, if we transform Moya's points to modern points:

Estoril SF 90
Barcelona SF 180
Monte Carlo W 1000
Rome R16 90
RG W 2000
Wimbledon R2 45
Stuttgart SF 90
USOPEN SF 720
Mallorca F 150
Master cup SF (3 RR wins) 600
Dubai SF 180
Indian Wells F 600

Total: 5745

Far away from Murray. Murray would probably be called a dominant force in the late 90s by beeing in 5 straight grand slam semifinals.

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post #11 of 68 (permalink) Old 03-20-2012, 12:31 AM
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Re: top 10 in early 1999 vs top 10 in 2012 (an observation, not a battle)

can't compare their games at all, I've seen Agassi playing Chang a few weeks ago and they were both serving like they never did when they were in their prime, all that because of the new equipment... if they were playing in today's era they would have to change their own way of playing completely to be effective!
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post #12 of 68 (permalink) Old 03-20-2012, 12:37 AM Thread Starter
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Re: top 10 in early 1999 vs top 10 in 2012 (an observation, not a battle)

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can't compare their games at all, I've seen Agassi playing Chang a few weeks ago and they were both serving like they never did when they were in their prime, all that because of the new equipment... if they were playing in today's era they would have to change their own way of playing completely to be effective!
Like a cosine curve tennis pendles back and forward between chaos and order, it doesnt nescessarily have to do with equipment or surfaces, remember Mcenroe-Borg-Connors in the late 70s and early 80s? Or Laver-Rosewall in the late 60s?

Right now we are in an era of extreme order, in the late 90s and early 00s only chaos reigned. If Federer, Nadal, Murray and Djokovic would travel together in Federer's jet and crash then thrust me we would be in for extreme chaos again.

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post #13 of 68 (permalink) Old 03-20-2012, 12:41 AM
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Re: top 10 in early 1999 vs top 10 in 2012 (an observation, not a battle)

You have to remember how diverse the surfaces were in 1999. If we had these surfaces then, you'd have members of that pack breaking out. Agassi in particular I'd say.

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post #14 of 68 (permalink) Old 03-20-2012, 12:48 AM Thread Starter
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Re: top 10 in early 1999 vs top 10 in 2012 (an observation, not a battle)

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You have to remember how diverse the surfaces were in 1999. If we had these surfaces then, you'd have members of that pack breaking out. Agassi in particular I'd say.
No, Agassi was still not completely into tennis in 98 and early 99. Change of surfaces cant really explain how AO 97-99 had 12 different semifinalists, or how Usopen 97-99 had 11 different semifinalists and Wimbledon 97-99 had 10 different semifinalists and RG 97-99 had 12 different semifinalists.

Surface change doesnt explain today's domination or late 90s/early 00s total lack of a dominant force or Mcenroe/Connors/Borg total domination and the early 70s chaotic period or Laver/Rosewall dominating the late 60s and so on.

All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
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post #15 of 68 (permalink) Old 03-20-2012, 12:52 AM
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Re: top 10 in early 1999 vs top 10 in 2012 (an observation, not a battle)

I'm really surprised to not see Kuerten at the top10 because i remember that he went to QF at Roland Garros against Medvedev and if he won he would face the opponent of Moya vs Meligeni. At the time, you had bonus points according to the ranking of your opponent (God, i loved that! ) and it was a really "big thing" in brazilian media, if Kuerten would prefer to face Meligeni, other brazilian in the SF or Moya, as if he won the title with a win over Moya (who had dropped already to number 4) he would be number 1. So, in 3 months, from number 17 (just saw it) to number 1 would be a crazy thing nowdays.

The only bad thing i remember about the bonus points - to take the topic more to the rules side of tennis - is that prevented foul play. A player who could withdraw from a match he was losing so the player couldn't get the points, as they weren't delivered if the win was by retirement. I can be mistaken, but i even think a doubtful case happened once.
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