Whose groundgame is the best in history? ATP stats analysis by surface - MensTennisForums.com
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 11:05 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
tennis_analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Age: 34
Posts: 77
                     
Whose groundgame is the best in history? ATP stats analysis by surface

Hi all

Who has the best rallying ability on each surface? Here is the table that shows percentage of points won in a rally by each player. This is estimated as the average between points won on 2nd serve and points won returning second serve (published by ATP). I think it's fair since second serves are mostly rally-starters.

These are career statistics since 1991 but:
- only years where the player had 20 or more matches are considered
- 3 or more of such years are required for the player to be considered for this analysis
(to get rid of random outliers)

This table was edited from its previous version following comments by LisaKoh . Before, I took simple average across all years the player was active in, so years with few matches counted as much as years with a lot of matches. This, for example, skewed Nadal's stats on HARD considerably. Now I take weighted average so that each match (and not each year) counts equally.


______________________ALL_________________________ ________HARD
Rafael Nadal__________56.3%__________Rafael Nadal__________55.9%
Andre Agassi__________55.1%__________Andre Agassi__________55.6%
Thomas Muster_________54.5%__________Roger Federer_________54.4%
Roger Federer_________54.2%__________Michael Chang_________54.3%
Juan Carlos Ferrero___54.0%__________Lleyton Hewitt________54.1%
Michael Chang_________54.0%__________Jim Courier___________53.9%
Lleyton Hewitt________53.6%__________Juan Carlos Ferrero___53.7%
David Nalbandian______53.5%__________David Nalbandian______53.5%
Novak Djokovic________53.4%__________Novak Djokovic________53.5%
Andy Murray___________53.3%__________Marcelo Rios__________53.5%
Marcelo Rios__________53.2%__________Andy Murray___________53.5%
David Ferrer__________53.1%__________David Ferrer__________53.4%
Alberto Berasategui___53.1%__________Olivier Rochus________53.3%
Jim Courier___________53.0%__________Andy Roddick__________53.3%
Nikolay Davydenko_____53.0%__________Stefan Edberg_________53.3%
Andy Roddick__________52.9%__________Vincent Spadea________53.3%
Juan Martin Del Potro_52.7%__________Robby Ginepri_________53.2%
Byron Black___________52.7%__________Patrick McEnroe_______53.2%
Felix Mantilla________52.7%__________Ivan Lendl____________53.2%
Patrick McEnroe_______52.6%__________Thomas Muster_________53.1%

______________________CLAY________________________ ________GRASS
Rafael Nadal__________57.3%__________Rafael Nadal__________56.2%
Thomas Muster_________55.8%__________Roger Federer_________55.6%
Juan Carlos Ferrero___54.2%__________Lleyton Hewitt________55.2%
Sergi Bruguera________54.2%__________Andre Agassi__________55.2%
Alberto Berasategui___54.1%__________David Ferrer__________54.6%
Felix Mantilla________53.7%__________Brett Steven__________54.5%
David Nalbandian______53.5%__________Stefan Edberg_________54.5%
David Ferrer__________53.4%__________Javier Frana__________54.1%
Andy Roddick__________53.2%__________Byron Black___________54.0%
Novak Djokovic________53.2%__________Francisco Clavet______53.8%
Guillermo Coria_______53.2%__________Richard Gasquet_______53.8%
Carlos Costa__________53.2%__________Juan Carlos Ferrero___53.7%
Roger Federer_________53.1%__________Michael Stich_________53.6%
Juan Monaco___________53.1%__________Janko Tipsarevic______53.4%
Albert Costa__________53.0%__________Juan Martin Del Potro_53.3%
Nikolay Davydenko_____53.0%__________Marcelo Rios__________53.3%
Andre Agassi__________53.0%__________Wally Masur___________53.2%
Marcelo Rios__________52.8%__________Patrick Rafter________53.2%
Tommy Robredo_________52.8%__________Olivier Rochus________53.1%
Juan Martin Del Potro_52.8%__________Pete Sampras__________53.1%

Last edited by tennis_analyst; 04-16-2012 at 04:47 PM.
tennis_analyst is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 11:10 PM
Registered User
 
TennisOnWood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,022
                     
Re: Whose groundgame is the best in history? ATP stats analysis by surface

And some stats from 1991. 'til today gives you answer whose groundgame is best in history?

HIC IACET ARTHURUS REX QUONDAM REXQUE FUTURUS — "Here lies Arthur, the once and future king."
TennisOnWood is offline  
post #3 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 11:11 PM
country flag HKz
Hakeem
 
HKz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mesa
Posts: 5,234
                     
Re: Whose groundgame is the best in history? ATP stats analysis by surface

Not surprising honestly.

Federer / Haas / Safin / Gaudio / Kuerten / Youzhny / Nadal / Gonzalez / Ljubicic / Hewitt / Soderling / Wawrinka / Coria / Nalbandian / Kohlschreiber
HKz is offline  
post #4 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 11:16 PM
Pray For Death
 
Clay Death's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 66,890
                     
Re: Whose groundgame is the best in history? ATP stats analysis by surface

awesome stats. thanks for sharing and keep up he good work.


so now people will finally realize what my sig really means.

however it all changes after 2010.

Clay Death is offline  
post #5 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 11:18 PM
country flag HKz
Hakeem
 
HKz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mesa
Posts: 5,234
                     
Re: Whose groundgame is the best in history? ATP stats analysis by surface

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay Death View Post
awesome stats. thanks for sharing and keep up he good work.


so now people will finally realize what my sig really means.

however it all changes after 2010.
Because people are that retarded that they don't see some Spanish guy hitting over the head topspin shots all day right?

Federer / Haas / Safin / Gaudio / Kuerten / Youzhny / Nadal / Gonzalez / Ljubicic / Hewitt / Soderling / Wawrinka / Coria / Nalbandian / Kohlschreiber
HKz is offline  
post #6 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 11:21 PM
Pray For Death
 
Clay Death's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 66,890
                     
Re: Whose groundgame is the best in history? ATP stats analysis by surface

vamos muster.

thanks for making it more clear for the masses here. especially the totally clueless ones.

Clay Death is offline  
post #7 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 11:24 PM
country flag HKz
Hakeem
 
HKz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mesa
Posts: 5,234
                     
Re: Whose groundgame is the best in history? ATP stats analysis by surface

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clay Death View Post
vamos muster.

thanks for making it more clear for the masses here. especially the totally clueless ones.
Cool story old sport

Federer / Haas / Safin / Gaudio / Kuerten / Youzhny / Nadal / Gonzalez / Ljubicic / Hewitt / Soderling / Wawrinka / Coria / Nalbandian / Kohlschreiber
HKz is offline  
post #8 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-19-2012, 11:33 PM
Banned!
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 9,577
                     
Re: Whose groundgame is the best in history? ATP stats analysis by surface

Janko Tipsarevic...

SerialKillerToBe is offline  
post #9 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-20-2012, 12:00 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,004
                     
Re: Whose groundgame is the best in history? ATP stats analysis by surface

Somewhat interesting, but irrelevent. It is wins that count. Clay- Nadal, Grass- Sampras- Hard- Federer. Overall, not just Slams: Roger, Pete, Agassi, Rafa.

Last edited by thrust; 03-20-2012 at 12:06 AM.
thrust is offline  
post #10 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-20-2012, 12:00 AM
Registered User
 
RandomChiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 177
                     
Re: Whose groundgame is the best in history? ATP stats analysis by surface

Jcf
RandomChiller is offline  
post #11 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-20-2012, 12:07 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,940
                     
Re: Whose groundgame is the best in history? ATP stats analysis by surface

Quote:
Originally Posted by thrust View Post
Somewhat interesting, but irrelevent. It is wins that count. Clay- Nadal, Grass- Sampras- Hard- Federer. Overall, not just Slams: Roger, Pete, Agassi, Rafa.
How is Pete's ground game better than Agassi or Nadal?! Pete's serve was the most important part of his game. Agassi and Nadal are far better in rallies than Sampras - can't imagine Sampras living with Nadal while Agassi could.
Ash86 is offline  
post #12 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-20-2012, 12:12 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,041
                     
Re: Whose groundgame is the best in history? ATP stats analysis by surface

Quote:
Originally Posted by thrust View Post
Somewhat interesting, but irrelevent. It is wins that count.
I'd like to start a thread about the best servers in history but it'll be irrelevant because it's wins that count
stewietennis is offline  
post #13 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-20-2012, 12:13 AM
Registered User
 
Slice Winner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,441
                     
Re: Whose groundgame is the best in history? ATP stats analysis by surface

The stats just don't add up.
Too much relies on 2nd service return, rather than just rallying. And endless other nuances and variables.

Unless you think Patrick McEnroe is a better HC rallier than Nole.
Slice Winner is offline  
post #14 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-20-2012, 12:14 AM
Registered User
 
Saberq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,983
                     
Re: Whose groundgame is the best in history? ATP stats analysis by surface

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash86 View Post
How is Pete's ground game better than Agassi or Nadal?! Pete's serve was the most important part of his game. Agassi and Nadal are far better in rallies than Sampras - can't imagine Sampras living with Nadal while Agassi could.
Pete would kill Nadal on grass and hard.....Pete's ground game was very solid
Saberq is offline  
post #15 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-20-2012, 12:17 AM
Registered User
 
Roamed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,725
                     
Re: Whose groundgame is the best in history? ATP stats analysis by surface

Great work! Although probably not entirely representative (for example I don't see Roddick's ground game being superior to Federer's on clay )

Will Federer regain the #1 spot and break Sampras's record for most weeks at the top?

Roger // Rafa // Raonic // Söderling // Goffin // Ivo // Wawrinka // Baker // Delpo
Roamed is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the MensTennisForums.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome