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post #31 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 04:25 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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Rafa has declined. I don't know how much but the way he loses leads and gets broken when things get tight or even the way he fails to close out the matches is a clear sign that he's not as strong as he was a couple of years ago.
Not really a sign of decline physicially so much as more mental issues. He still competes fine but the fact that he gets tight trying to serve things out is more to do with the mental side of things. He just isnt as confident as he used to be
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post #32 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 04:26 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

I must agree Federer is currently playing the best tennis since he started to decline.
Can you picture Roger 2008-2010 beating Nadal at Indian Wells? Because I can't.

I believe Fed is enjoying a sort of short-term Renaissance of 2004-2007 form.
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post #33 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 04:27 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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even after that choke at the Australian Davy was still playing well at events after that. But then he got injured and he's never been the same since

He has shown recently he's kind of coming back to where he was but injuries and illness are starting to affect him more often
It would be lovely to have him and Nalbandian around in great form late this season teaching some things to the younger generation about beeing aggressive returners, creating angles and how to play indoor tennis (and how to beat Nadal).

Federer really needs some rivals indoors, the younger generation just cant play on those conditions so his old pals better get back to business and give him a challenge at the end of this year.

All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
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post #34 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 04:30 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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I must agree Federer is currently playing the best tennis since he started to decline.
Can you picture Roger 2008-2010 beating Nadal at Indian Wells? Because I can
Part of it is because Federer learned how to play Nadal in 2009 and has been adjusting his tactics against Nadal bit for bit ever since, but he is not good enought anymore to constantly challenge the peaking NAdal. I belive he is 4-5 against Nadal since 2009 and has only played a really bad match in Miami since then. Federer's backhand is alot better since 2009 against Nadal but not so much against everybody else.

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post #35 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 04:33 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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I must agree Federer is currently playing the best tennis since he started to decline.
Can you picture Roger 2008-2010 beating Nadal at Indian Wells? Because I can't.

I believe Fed is enjoying a sort of short-term Renaissance of 2004-2007 form.
There's no reason why it should be short term. Federer has had a mixture of huge form dips and minor form dips. However, each dip has been accentuated by stronger competition over the past 4 years. His 2008-2010 form would still have carried him to 3 out of 4 slams against the 2004 field, despite a noticeable loss of form.

I don't see any physical decline whatsoever and see no reason why he can't sustain his current form.

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post #36 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 04:36 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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He is playing as well now as he ever has. That is not the same as me saying that his level didn't dip at any point. His level has picked up again in the past 6 months. How can you possibly look at his current form and argue that he is inferior to 2006 Fed? He is playing incredible tennis. He has barely lost a match since last summer.
Are you telling us his movement & footwork (the pillars of his greatness) are even better at 30 than say at 25/26 ? Ignoring context much ? Winning no name tournaments in the last six months does not make this Roger EQUAL or BETTER than 2006/2007 Roger. Go back and watch the old vids and see what Roger could do on court because quite clearly you have forgotten.
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post #37 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 04:38 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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I must agree Federer is currently playing the best tennis since he started to decline.
Can you picture Roger 2008-2010 beating Nadal at Indian Wells? Because I can't.

I believe Fed is enjoying a sort of short-term Renaissance of 2004-2007 form.
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Part of it is because Federer learned how to play Nadal in 2009 and has been adjusting his tactics against Nadal bit for bit ever since, but he is not good enought anymore to constantly challenge the peaking NAdal. I belive he is 4-5 against Nadal since 2009 and has only played a really bad match in Miami since then. Federer's backhand is alot better since 2009 against Nadal but not so much against everybody else.
He is doing well to get the most out of his 'old age', but he still can't cut it against Nadal in slams. This is proof that Nadal hasn't really declined like some say. I agree that Federer has improved his backhand somewhat, but he lost a bit of speed, his back doesn't hold up as well in the long run and he's lost his mental edge, especially in slams. These 3 are clear signs that Federer is declining.
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post #38 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 04:41 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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There's no reason why it should be short term. Federer has had a mixture of huge form dips and minor form dips. However, each dip has been accentuated by stronger competition over the past 4 years. His 2008-2010 form would still have carried him to 3 out of 4 slams against the 2004 field, despite a noticeable loss of form.

I don't see any physical decline whatsoever and see no reason why he can't sustain his current form.
Refer to my previous post. I pointed out signs of his decline, and also reasons why his current form is a bit deceptive actually. Until he wins another slam, he's just continuing his steady, slamless decline.
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post #39 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 04:52 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

federer hasn't been quite the same since his peak years in 2005, 2006 and early 2007.

however, i'd say that in the past 6 months he's been playing the best tennis i've seen of him since 2008. lots of ups and downs have passed since that year, though. i recall federer played almost as well as in his peak years in AO 2010, for example, and then played at his muggiest in the next months.

as for the reasons of roger's slow decline, the speed is the most notorious factor. fed's game depended (and still does) big time on his footwork and that's not quite the same as before. nowadays he makes less adjustment small steps and that in turn makes him more prone to errors and shanks. still, on a good day the differences are only minor...

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post #40 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 04:52 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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Are you telling us his movement & footwork (the pillars of his greatness) are even better at 30 than say at 25/26?
Nope. I said no such thing. Try reading again and you'll get there eventually.

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Winning no name tournaments in the last six months does not make this Roger EQUAL or BETTER than 2006/2007 Roger.
I'm not looking at tournament wins. I'm looking at his play and his competition. He is playing every bit as well as he ever has. Of course I don't expect everyone to agree, since there is nothing Roger could possibly do at this point to convince you that he is playing at a peak level right now. He could dominate for the next 5 years and I have no doubt people would rattle on about him still being 5% slower or some other unprovable bullshit.

And since when are the TMC and (probably) IW 'no name tournaments'? I can't abide posters who act as though there are only 4 tournaments that matter. If you truly believe that, fuck off and watch some other sport for the other 40 or so weeks.

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Go back and watch the old vids and see what Roger could do on court because quite clearly you have forgotten.
Unlike MTF generally, I actually have a long term memory. I've seen Roger at his best and his worst. Rewatching old matches that I have seen multiple times won't change my opinion.

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post #41 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 04:55 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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I'm not looking at tournament wins. I'm looking at his play and his competition. He is playing every bit as well as he ever has. Of course I don't expect everyone to agree,
well, it's not reasonable to expect people to agree that federer is probly the first pro tennis player in history who has managed to play at his best level for over 6 years.

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post #42 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 04:58 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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Refer to my previous post. I pointed out signs of his decline, and also reasons why his current form is a bit deceptive actually. Until he wins another slam, he's just continuing his steady, slamless decline.
I don't see any 'signs'. He can't cut it against Nadal in slams? Nadal is notorious for not being a player who phones in performances. Wiping the floor with him at the TMC and IW should not be overlooked. You also seem to be forgetting that Federer has always had trouble against Nadal, even when he dominated. Moreover, he struggled against a Nadal who had not yet matured.

Also, there has only been one major since he really picked up his form, or perhaps two if you include the US Open. Are you really going to hold that loss to Djokovic against him? Federer has never been like Nadal in the mental department. And we needn't even deconstruct the AO loss to Nadal. As I've already said, Rafa has always been and always will be a bad matchup for him

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post #43 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 05:01 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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There's no reason why it should be short term. Federer has had a mixture of huge form dips and minor form dips. However, each dip has been accentuated by stronger competition over the past 4 years. His 2008-2010 form would still have carried him to 3 out of 4 slams against the 2004 field, despite a noticeable loss of form.

I don't see any physical decline whatsoever and see no reason why he can't sustain his current form.
He doesn't move as well, he doesn't time his forehand as well as he once did (albeit it's still a great shot from time to time) and his backhand's regressed a hell of a lot.

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post #44 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 05:01 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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well, it's not reasonable to expect people to agree that federer is probly the first pro tennis player in history who has managed to play at his best level for over 6 years.
People really don't take the time to read on this forum.

I stated repeatedly that his form dipped from 2008 onwards. I said it had picked up over the past 6 months.

I'm not sure how I can make myself any clearer. I did not say that he has played at a peak level non-stop for 6 years.

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post #45 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 05:01 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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I must agree Federer is currently playing the best tennis since he started to decline.
Can you picture Roger 2008-2010 beating Nadal at Indian Wells? Because I can't.

I believe Fed is enjoying a sort of short-term Renaissance of 2004-2007 form.



The only top 4 players that seem to be declining are Nadal and Murray a little bit as well. Nadal and Murray were better in 2008-2009 than now.. Meanwhile Federer and Djokovic are better now than a couple of years ago.

I wouldn't be surprised if Nole and Roger share the slams this year.

Last edited by reery; 03-18-2012 at 05:13 PM.
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