When did these players begin their decline in your opinon - Page 2 - MensTennisForums.com

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post #16 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 01:51 AM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

wheres murray?
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post #17 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 11:18 AM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

Is Federer right now better than he has been since 2010? Maybe even since 2008?

All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
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post #18 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 11:39 AM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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Is Federer right now better than he has been since 2010? Maybe even since 2008?
In physical ability, no.

In mental aspects, probably yes.

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post #19 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 12:00 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

Rafa has declined. I don't know how much but the way he loses leads and gets broken when things get tight or even the way he fails to close out the matches is a clear sign that he's not as strong as he was a couple of years ago.
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post #20 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 12:30 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

Federer and Nadal are not in decline. Players simply have ups and downs. Look at Federer's form over the past 5-6 months. He's playing as well as he ever has. And Nadal has often gone through patches like this.

This is the usual MTF shit we're used to. 99% of the forum have no long term memory. It's as if everything before the current tournament never happened. If Nadal wins Miami, we'll hear about him dominating the clay court stretch again. If Djokovic wins Miami, we'll hear about him being a cert for the Golden Slam. If Federer wins Miami, he'll be on his way to world number 1 again this year. If Murray wins Miami, we'll have threads about him winning his first slam very soon. It's the same shit over and over. This forum is simply populated by idiots who can't recall what happened as recently as 2 weeks ago.

Half of that is not related to the subject of this thread, but posting it here is as good a place as any.

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post #21 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 12:34 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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Is Federer right now better than he has been since 2010? Maybe even since 2008?
Federer is as good now as he was in 2006 and certainly better than 2007. He is playing incredible tennis at the moment. You can't always measure a player's form by the number of slams they win in a given year. 2005 Federer was superior to 2007 Federer, despite being less successful.

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post #22 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 03:26 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

based on purely level of play which is the real definition of peak:

Nadal - peaked in 2008, yet to decline.....

Roddick - peaked in wimbledon 2009 and declined after the final in the same tournament.....

Federer - peaked in 2007, yet to decline.....

Nalbandian - peaked in 2003, dug a deep well after 2006 and is resting inside ever since.....climbed out for a brief span in 2007 and went back in.....

Sampras - peaked in 1992, declined in 2000.....

Agassi - peaked in 1992, declined in 2001....

Davydenko - indefinite

Safin - indefinite

Hewitt - indefinite
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post #23 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 03:32 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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Federer is as good now as he was in 2006
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post #24 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 03:45 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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Federer is as good now as he was in 2006 and certainly better than 2007.
Oh no you didn't. Not after that vitriol about 99% of MTF having long term memory problems
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post #25 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 04:00 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

Nadal - 2015 (Ridiculous having a 25 year old on this list )
Roddick - 2004 (Why did he change his game)
Federer - 2008 (If you blinked you'd have missed the subtle signs)
Nalbandian - 2004 (only because he started getting rounder around the waist)
Safin - 2006 (Was at his peak at THAT 2005 AO)
Hewitt - 2005 (Well the game passed him by really the AO final notwithstanding)
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post #26 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 04:05 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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Oh no you didn't. Not after that vitriol about 99% of MTF having long term memory problems
He is playing as well now as he ever has. That is not the same as me saying that his level didn't dip at any point. His level has picked up again in the past 6 months. How can you possibly look at his current form and argue that he is inferior to 2006 Fed? He is playing incredible tennis. He has barely lost a match since last summer.

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post #27 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 04:09 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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Federer - 2008 (If you blinked you'd have missed the subtle signs)
There was nothing subtle about it.

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post #28 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 04:17 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

Nadal is not declining yet.

Federer is in his best form since 2008 when he started declining. 2009 was a bit lucky for him, playing Soderling and Roddick in slam finals, but he is definitely declining.
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post #29 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 04:22 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

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It's what the definition of decline is. If player X plays great tennis as good as ever, but a competitor improves strongly. Than I don't really consider it a decline of player X. Than I think that his competitor has improved, but not necessarily that player X declined. I consider a decline when the personal quality of tennis of player X goes strongly down.
Although you might also look from a different perspective indeed: looking purely to the rankings and statistics. And than it is true that player X was on the rankings surpassed, because his competitor improved so much. So on the rankings/statistics he declined indeed.

So the question is:
Should decline be based on the moment that the quality of tennis of somebody's own personal game goes down?
Or should decline be based on the time when he starts to fall in the overall rankings?

I would go for the first definition. But you can discuss about it.
I saw other signs of decline from Rafa than just losing to Djokovic, like how he played against everyone else on clay, Murray beeing so close to Nadal almost every set they played each other on clay last year, Federer winning more points than NAdal the first 3 sets in RG, going to 5 sets against Isner and beeing pushed around by players like Andujar and some italian challenger, in 2008 players like Almagro and Ferrer would fight for their life to win 2 games per set and now they just lose because Nadal is better in decisive moments.

His backhand is significantly worse than it once as, so is his returning and passing shots and it is difficult to neglect this. Nadal's decline is not happening anywhere close to as fast as I had predicted it would but it is as clear as day and night that it is happening right now.

All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
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post #30 of 57 (permalink) Old 03-18-2012, 04:23 PM
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Re: When did these players begin their decline in your opinon

even after that choke at the Australian Davy was still playing well at events after that. But then he got injured and he's never been the same since

He has shown recently he's kind of coming back to where he was but injuries and illness are starting to affect him more often
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