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post #46 of 82 (permalink) Old 02-19-2012, 12:22 AM
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Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

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Originally Posted by Slice Winner View Post
Rafa is similar against Nole.
Maybe, but Rafa used to kick Novak's ass. At one point Novak was even Rafa's turkey, 14:4, or something close to it, so something has changed obviously, although their matches have always been pretty close.
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post #47 of 82 (permalink) Old 02-19-2012, 12:29 AM
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Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

I think mental strength especially along with most other attributes should be scored with the player at their peak. I noticed that most people are giving Djoko a higher mental strength at the moment than Fed and Nad. He is at his peak right now. But in a couple of years when he starts losing, it will look like his mental strength is not where it used to be. Every great player goes through that phase. It happened to Fed, it happened to Nad and it will happen to Djoko.

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post #48 of 82 (permalink) Old 02-19-2012, 12:33 AM
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Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

^^^
I give Nadal a higher mental strength over any other player, any time, before and right now
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post #49 of 82 (permalink) Old 02-19-2012, 12:42 AM
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Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

Peak versions. Nole and Muzz pretty much are peak - Fed and Rafs would lose a few points here & there.

Djokovic
Forehand: 8.5
Backhand topspin/flat: 9.5
Backhand slice: 6
Serve: 8
Return: 10
Net play: 7 (good coverage, but doesn't always place volleys well - no killer instinct)
Physical Strength & Fitness: 10 (after Aus Open 2012, nothing needs to be said)
Mental Strength: 9.5 (Occasionally guilty of clowning, which makes him lose focus)
Tactics: 8 (Good, but I don't see this as his strongest point. Occasionally overuses dropshots (often in combo w/ lobs))
Movement: 9.5

Nadal
Forehand: 9 (Amazing power and spin, not very versatile though)
Backhand topspin/flat: 7.5
Backhand slice: 4 (decent floating defensive slice, terrible otherwise)
Serve: 8 (the peak was about 2 tournaments though)
Return: 8.5
Net play: 7 (good at dealing with easy putaways, good reflexes, weaker on difficult/low volleys)
Physical Strength & Fitness: 10
Mental Strength: 9.5 (sometimes gets down on himself for UEs, otherwise perfect)
Tactics: 7.5 (builds points well, but wins come more due to mental strength than tactics. Clueless against Djokovic 2.0)
Movement: 10

Federer
Forehand: 10
Backhand topspin/flat: 8
Backhand slice: 9
Serve: 9.5
Return: 9 (peak Fed's ROS >> 2012 Fed's ROS)
Net play: 8.5 (fantastic hands, occasionally blunders on easy/high volleys)
Physical Strength & Fitness: 9 (probably deserves higher for never retiring, but purely match stamina)
Mental Strength: 9 (Peak Fed very clutch, similar to Sampras, relying on serve. Sometimes throws in towel in 5th set)
Tactics: 8.5 (His point construction is underrated. Mixes his style depending on opponent/surface probably more than the others of top 4)
Movement: 9.5

Murray
Forehand: 7.5
Backhand topspin/flat: 9
Backhand slice: 8
Serve: 7 (big 1st serve, terrible %, terrible 2nd serve)
Return: 9.5
Net play: 7.5 (good hands and anticipation. Often gets way too tight to net)
Physical Strength & Fitness: 9.5
Mental Strength: 7 (Alternates between brilliant 2-sets-down victories, and not showing up mentally. Gets angry at himself each match, etc.)
Tactics: 6.5 (Actually capable of very good tactics, ruined by mental collapses and/or incessant pushing. No killer instinct 90% of the time)
Movement: 8.5 (incredibly quick, but doesn't always use his feet well)

Totals (out of 100)
Djokovic: 86
Nadal: 81
Federer: 90
Murray: 80

Looking at this, I feel like Murray should be lower, but it's because I gave a whole category for slice backhand instead of averaging slice and topspin backhands, in which case entire thing would be a little closer, but I CBA adding things again.

(Edited to include movement)

Last edited by Slice Winner; 02-19-2012 at 01:01 AM.
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post #50 of 82 (permalink) Old 02-19-2012, 12:51 AM
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Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

Tommy Haas

Forehand: 11
Backhand topspin/flat: 11
Backhand slice: 42
Serve: 11
Return: 11
Net play: 9001
Physical Strength & Fitness: 11
Mental Strength: 11
Tactics: 11
Germanness: 11
Sexiness: 11
Ajde level: Off the charts
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post #51 of 82 (permalink) Old 02-19-2012, 12:57 AM
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Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

Djoko
Forehand - 6
Backhand - 8
Slice - 3
Volleys - 3
Serve - 5
Return - 6
Physical Strength & Fitness - 6
Mental Strength - 6
Tactics - 4
TOTAL: 47

Rafa
Forehand - 8
Backhand - 6
Slice - 5
Volleys - 4
Serve - 5
Return - 4
Physical Strength & Fitness - 6
Mental Strength - 10
Tactics - N/A
TOTAL: 48*
*total skewed by 'N/A' rating for 'Tactics'

Roger
Forehand - 8
Backhand - 6.5
Slice - 8
Volleys - 5
Serve - 7
Return - 4
Physical Strength & Fitness - 4
Mental Strength - 6
Tactics - 8
TOTAL: 56.5

Murray
Forehand - 3
Backhand - 6.5
Slice - 5
Volleys - 3
Serve - 4
Return - 5
Physical Strength & Fitness - 5
Mental Strength - 3
Tactics - 4
TOTAL: 38.5
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post #52 of 82 (permalink) Old 02-19-2012, 01:21 AM
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Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

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Originally Posted by out_grinder View Post
Djoko
Forehand - 6
Backhand - 8
Slice - 3
Volleys - 3
Serve - 5
Return - 6
Physical Strength & Fitness - 6
Mental Strength - 6
Tactics - 4
TOTAL: 47

Rafa
Forehand - 8
Backhand - 6
Slice - 5
Volleys - 4
Serve - 5
Return - 4
Physical Strength & Fitness - 6
Mental Strength - 10
Tactics - N/A
TOTAL: 48*
*total skewed by 'N/A' rating for 'Tactics'

Roger
Forehand - 8
Backhand - 6.5
Slice - 8
Volleys - 5
Serve - 7
Return - 4
Physical Strength & Fitness - 4
Mental Strength - 6
Tactics - 8
TOTAL: 56.5

Murray
Forehand - 3
Backhand - 6.5
Slice - 5
Volleys - 3
Serve - 4
Return - 5
Physical Strength & Fitness - 5
Mental Strength - 3
Tactics - 4
TOTAL: 38.5
this is worse than Sapeod's

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post #53 of 82 (permalink) Old 02-19-2012, 02:10 AM
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Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

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Originally Posted by Slice Winner View Post
Tommy Haas

Forehand: 11
Backhand topspin/flat: 11
Backhand slice: 42
Serve: 11
Return: 11
Net play: 9001
Physical Strength & Fitness: 11
Mental Strength: 11
Tactics: 11
Germanness: 11
Sexiness: 11
Ajde level: Off the charts

[youtube]UeOXsA8sp_E[/youtube]
11
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post #54 of 82 (permalink) Old 02-19-2012, 02:39 AM
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Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

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Originally Posted by allpro View Post
[youtube]UeOXsA8sp_E[/youtube]
11
Exactly
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post #55 of 82 (permalink) Old 02-19-2012, 03:47 AM
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Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

Based on current form.

Djokovic:
Forehand: 8.5
Backhand: 9.5
Serve: 8
Physical Strength & Fitness: 9
Mental Strength: 9
Tactics: 8
Total: 52

Nadal:
Forehand: 9
Backhand: 7
Serve: 7
Physical Strength & Fitness: 9.5
Mental Strength: 9.5
Tactics: 8
Total: 50

Federer:
Forehand: 9
Backhand: 6
Serve: 9
Physical Strength & Fitness: 8
Mental Strength: 7
Tactics: 7
Total: 46

Murray:
Forehand: 7
Backhand: 9
Serve: 7.5
Physical Strength & Fitness: 9
Mental Strength: 6
Tactics: 8.5
Total: 47
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post #56 of 82 (permalink) Old 02-19-2012, 04:45 AM
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Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapeod View Post
CURRENT VERSONS:

DJOKOVIC: 51/60
Forehand - 8, fairly good but nowhere near the best.
Backhand - 10, joint with Murray as the best on tour.
Serve - 8, nothing majorly special.
Physical Strength & Fitness - 9, he regularly gets tired and exhausted in his matches. Of course, this could just be an act. Knowing Djokovic, it probably is, so he gets a 9.
Mental Strength - 9, nothing wrong with his mentality, but he doesn't like it when crowds are cheering for his opponent
Tactics - 7. He has no tactics. He just grinds. However, he can do far more than Nadal can.

NADAL: 42/60
Forehand - 7, not great.
Backhand - 7, not great.
Serve - 5, he has a horrible serve
Physical Strength & Fitness - 9, is falling.
Mental Strength - 9, same as ever.
Tactics - 5. Nadal has tactics? He just grinds, like Djokovic.

FEDERER: 44/60
Forehand - 8, still very good.
Backhand - 5, to be honest, it's a joke.
Serve - 7, not as good anymore.
Physical Strength & Fitness - 9, he is old now, but there's nothing wrong with him physically.
Mental Strength - 8, still relatively strong.
Tactics - 7, not as good as they once were.

MURRAY: 52/60
Forehand - 8, very good atm. Far better than what it used to be.
Backhand - 10, joint with Djokovic as the best on tour.
Serve - 8, on and off, though very good when it's on.
Physical Strength & Fitness - 9, one of the fittest guys on tour, though he does get days when he's unsually tired.
Mental Strength - 7, looking better, but it's still not the best.
Tactics - 10, currently the best tactical player on tour. That's how he plays.


PEAK VERSIONS:

DJOKOVIC: 51/60
The same as his current version.
Forehand - 8, fairly good but nowhere near the best.
Backhand - 10, joint with Murray as the best on tour.
Serve - 8, nothing majorly special.
Physical Strength & Fitness - 9, he regularly gets tired and exhausted in his matches. Of course, this could just be an act. Knowing Djokovic, it probably is, so he gets a 9.
Mental Strength - 9, nothing wrong with his mentality, but he doesn't like it when crowds are cheering for his opponent
Tactics - 7 (He has no tactics. He just grinds. However, he can do far more than Nadal can.)

FEDERER: 59/60
Forehand - 10, the best.
Backhand - 10, amazing.
Serve - 10, unbreakable.
Physical Strength & Fitness - 10, one of the fittest and strongest guys ever. Hardly ever got injured.
Mental Strength - 9, not the best, but still very good.
Tactics - 10, unstoppable.

NADAL: 45/60
Forehand - 8, overrated, but still very good.
Backhand - 7, it's never been great.
Serve - 6, has always been mediocre.
Physical Strength & Fitness - 10, one of the best, though his constant timeouts would get him a lower score, if it wasn't for the fact that they're all fake.
Mental Strength - 9, very good usually.
Tactics - 5, he's just a grinder.

MURRAY: 52/60
Forehand - 8, very good atm. Far better than what it used to be.
Backhand - 10, joint with Djokovic as the best on tour.
Serve - 8, on and off, though very good when it's on.
Physical Strength & Fitness - 9, one of the fittest guys on tour, though he does get days when he's unsually tired.
Mental Strength - 7, looking better, but it's still not the best.
Tactics - 10, currently the best tactical player on tour. That's how he plays.

Yes, I know I put Murray above peak Djokovic, but that's based on these categories. Overall, Djokovic is obviously better atm, though Murray is very close and at his peak, would be on a similar, if not higher, level.
only a truly delusional fan would put Murray's current form over Rafael Nadal's peak form............... it is definitely somewhat embarassing and posts like this don't garner you any more respect around here, that's for sure

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post #57 of 82 (permalink) Old 02-19-2012, 04:47 AM
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Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

All I say is shave 3 points off the scores of everything except the serve for current Fed from Peak Fed.

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post #58 of 82 (permalink) Old 02-19-2012, 04:48 AM
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Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

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I think mental strength especially along with most other attributes should be scored with the player at their peak. I noticed that most people are giving Djoko a higher mental strength at the moment than Fed and Nad. He is at his peak right now. But in a couple of years when he starts losing, it will look like his mental strength is not where it used to be. Every great player goes through that phase. It happened to Fed, it happened to Nad and it will happen to Djoko.
hasn't really happened to Nadal as Nadal is mentally the same as before just (like everyone else) loses to Djokovic. it's like playing the video game PONG. it's not so much that Rafael Nadal has gotten weaker mentally as much as practically no matter what he does when he plays DJokovic, the ball comes back into play. not so much mentality as much as Nadal has just been outplayed over the last year

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post #59 of 82 (permalink) Old 02-19-2012, 05:27 AM
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Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

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Originally Posted by Slice Winner View Post
Yeah his tactics aren't great against Rafa.
But there's not a lot he can do to win that matchup - it requires too high a level of play sustained for too long.
Rafa is similar against Nole.

You can't judge a player's entire tactics based on one matchup.
Fed is extraordinarily stubborn as well as talented. Most of the time he wins out of talent and experience. Very rarely does he seem to figure out difficult opponents nowadays- if anything, he's more often losing from ahead than winning from behind after making tactical adjustments.

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post #60 of 82 (permalink) Old 02-19-2012, 07:28 AM
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Re: Rank the following qualities of the top 4 from 1 to 10

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Originally Posted by Slice Winner View Post
Tommy Haas

Forehand: 11
Backhand topspin/flat: 11
Backhand slice: 42
Serve: 11
Return: 11
Net play: 9001
Physical Strength & Fitness: 11
Mental Strength: 11
Tactics: 11
Germanness: 11
Sexiness: 11
Ajde level: Off the charts
Undoubtedly the best and most accurate post in this thread. The bolded part is sheer GOAT.

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Originally Posted by Matt01 View Post
Fed's groundstrokes never were that good to begin with.
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