Baghdatis/Gonzalez/Tsonga all played as high a level in AO finals as Djokovic/Nadal - MensTennisForums.com

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post #1 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-17-2011, 10:06 AM Thread Starter
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Baghdatis/Gonzalez/Tsonga all played as high a level in AO finals as Djokovic/Nadal

Going back and watching the full matches of their quarters/semis and finals, they played every bit as high a level in those matches as most Djokovic/Nadal finals of 2010/2011.

I think Djokovics level against Nadal has been higher, but against Federer and some other players, its been about the same.

People often critisise Rogers GS finals opponents in 2005-2007 outside of Nadal, but this thread isnt about him or Nadal. Its about recognising that those players were clearly the 2nd best players in those tournaments.

Infact, Gonzalez and Tsonga DESTROYED Nadal at those respective AO events. People like to think of Nadal as a midget on HC in those days, but he wasnt. He neally reached the USO final the same year in 2008. Tsonga and Gonzalez destroyed everyone infront of them actually, even Murray in 2008 and Hewitt in 2007, who were legends on the surface and playing at a very high level.

Federer was in career best form in 2007 AO yet only just out tussled Federer in that final. It was very close, Gonzo having set point in set 1.

The truth is, Gonzo, Bahgy and Tsonga have always been capable of playing tennis to beat anyone, they just have never been able to keep the level up consistantly, but in those 1 magic tournaments, the level did stick. At least until the final until it wavered a bit or Federer was too good under intense pressure.

The only exception is I felt Tsonga was a bit of a let down in his final, he really could have won that match or taken it all the way to 5.

But alas, they were very good.

Lets not also forget Baghdatis came from 2 sets down to beat a very good Nalbandian in the AO semi. The same Nalbandian that was Destroying Peak Federer 3 months later in French Open semi only to suffer injury. He also created insane angles vs Federer in the final, people should re watch the first set, he was outstandingly good for a while there.

But alas, this thread is not to debate about weak eras etc, its merely to say that the aformentioned players were every bit as deserving finalists as anyone else in recent years. They played an outstanding level and really didnt fluke anything to get there, save maybe Baghdatis-Nalbandian semi. Each of those slams really did have the best 2 players in the final.

Those matches were every bit as exciting as the finals Djokovic and Nadal have contested in 2011. Some of the shotmaking was unbelievable.

"I did not play my best tennis, no? And..that is what enable him to win..to win this match no? "

- Rafael Nadal, ever so "humble", - press conference after shock 4 set loss to Robeen Soderling @ 2009 French Open 4th round.


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post #2 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-17-2011, 10:10 AM
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Re: Baghdatis/Gonzalez/Tsonga all played as high a level in AO finals as Djokovic/Nad

gonzalez and tsonga played their best or almost the best tennis. baggy didn't

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post #3 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-17-2011, 10:13 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Baghdatis/Gonzalez/Tsonga all played as high a level in AO finals as Djokovic/Nad

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Originally Posted by samanosuke View Post
gonzalez and tsonga played their best or almost the best tennis. baggy didn't
Yeah 2006 AO was a very open slam for a number of players to win.

But at the end of the day Federer was a bit too good still for anyone that could have contested that tournament. He was allowed an easy slam or two. Though the tears in his trophy ceremony indicated he had to fight very hard for it.

I remember the 5 setter with Haas earlier in the tourney. The first 5 setter he had played in a year since the 2005 Safin Semi.

That tournament ment a lot to Fed.

"I did not play my best tennis, no? And..that is what enable him to win..to win this match no? "

- Rafael Nadal, ever so "humble", - press conference after shock 4 set loss to Robeen Soderling @ 2009 French Open 4th round.


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post #4 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-17-2011, 10:14 AM
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Re: Baghdatis/Gonzalez/Tsonga all played as high a level in AO finals as Djokovic/Nad

shut up man...field was weak in 2006 and 2007....I mean Fed was still too good even for todays field but come on
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post #5 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-17-2011, 10:18 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Baghdatis/Gonzalez/Tsonga all played as high a level in AO finals as Djokovic/Nad

Davydenko was hitting peak Djokovic off the court at times at the 2011 US Open.

Imagine what 2006 Davydenko would have done to him. Might have taken him to 5.

The field wasnt weak.

"I did not play my best tennis, no? And..that is what enable him to win..to win this match no? "

- Rafael Nadal, ever so "humble", - press conference after shock 4 set loss to Robeen Soderling @ 2009 French Open 4th round.


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post #6 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-17-2011, 10:31 AM
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Re: Baghdatis/Gonzalez/Tsonga all played as high a level in AO finals as Djokovic/Nad

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Originally Posted by 2003 View Post
Davydenko was hitting peak Djokovic off the court at times at the 2011 US Open.

Imagine what 2006 Davydenko would have done to him. Might have taken him to 5.

The field wasnt weak.
Late 2009 Davydenko would have ripped that Djokovic apart.
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post #7 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-17-2011, 10:41 AM
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Re: Baghdatis/Gonzalez/Tsonga all played as high a level in AO finals as Djokovic/Nad

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shut up man...field was weak in 2006 and 2007....I mean Fed was still too good even for todays field but come on
Give a few years time bro, same shit will be said about 2010, 2011, etc. It is always much easier to criticize/praise in retrospect. Either way, all of this shit is completely subjective. While one could say an era was weak, one could also point out that the top player is just dominating more. Just depends what biases you have and how you look at the situation (half full, half empty). There are plenty of arguments people have made about the 70s, 80s and 90s.

Every era is full of clowns as they say.

After all, even if you claim 2005/2006/2007 was weak, Nadal couldn't win a HC slam until 2009. Sure you can say he has "improved" but one could say otherwise about the field as well.

There are always excuses and reasons to make if you are willing to say them.

Federer / Haas / Safin / Gaudio / Kuerten / Youzhny / Nadal / Gonzalez / Ljubicic / Hewitt / Soderling / Wawrinka / Coria / Nalbandian / Kohlschreiber
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post #8 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-17-2011, 11:03 AM
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Re: Baghdatis/Gonzalez/Tsonga all played as high a level in AO finals as Djokovic/Nad

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Davydenko was hitting peak Djokovic off the court at times at the 2011 US Open.

Imagine what 2006 Davydenko would have done to him. Might have taken him to 5.

The field wasnt weak.
yeah in a few games .....Davydenko can only bend over to the King
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post #9 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-17-2011, 11:03 AM
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Re: Baghdatis/Gonzalez/Tsonga all played as high a level in AO finals as Djokovic/Nad

The Problem with Tsonga,Gonzalez and the lot if that they reach the final and Federer knows about it and he knows for sure that he can beat them easily and he goes in with that belief, and when he goes in with that belief he is very hard to stop... And the opponent also starts believing that Federer cannot be over come.. If the likes of Tsonga and Gonzales had persisted with their top game for a longer time against Federer who knows what the end result would be

Thats the difference between Federer facing a Tsonga and Federer facing Djokovic. Federer goes in with the same belief that He can beat Djokovic but Djokovic in return doesnt give him the leeway whereas likes of Tsonga and Gonzales give him the leeway.
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post #10 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-17-2011, 11:12 AM
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Re: Baghdatis/Gonzalez/Tsonga all played as high a level in AO finals as Djokovic/Nad

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Originally Posted by 2003 View Post
Yeah 2006 AO was a very open slam for a number of players to win.

But at the end of the day Federer was a bit too good still for anyone that could have contested that tournament. He was allowed an easy slam or two. Though the tears in his trophy ceremony indicated he had to fight very hard for it.

I remember the 5 setter with Haas earlier in the tourney. The first 5 setter he had played in a year since the 2005 Safin Semi.

That tournament ment a lot to Fed.

at AO 2006 Fed played probably his worst tennis of any slams he won . Firstly he survived Has in 1/8 , then davydenko choked point after point, he got lucky with 1/2 draw and in finals Baggy would have had great shot if he was playing tennis like before finals but he was too tired

Quote:
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shut up man...field was weak in 2006 and 2007....I mean Fed was still too good even for todays field but come on
don't agree . ao 2006 was one of those slams where is full of surprised and 2007 no way . nadal surely wasn't playing his best but even if he was playing gonzo was INSANE, nadal was humiliated as never . and gonzo was just unlucky that was this maybe the best Fed's tennis at one GS till today

La Undécima
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post #11 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-17-2011, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Baghdatis/Gonzalez/Tsonga all played as high a level in AO finals as Djokovic/Nad

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The Problem with Tsonga,Gonzalez and the lot if that they reach the final and Federer knows about it and he knows for sure that he can beat them easily and he goes in with that belief, and when he goes in with that belief he is very hard to stop... And the opponent also starts believing that Federer cannot be over come.. If the likes of Tsonga and Gonzales had persisted with their top game for a longer time against Federer who knows what the end result would be

Thats the difference between Federer facing a Tsonga and Federer facing Djokovic. Federer goes in with the same belief that He can beat Djokovic but Djokovic in return doesnt give him the leeway whereas likes of Tsonga and Gonzales give him the leeway.
Tell that to Tsonga at Wimbledon 2011.

"I did not play my best tennis, no? And..that is what enable him to win..to win this match no? "

- Rafael Nadal, ever so "humble", - press conference after shock 4 set loss to Robeen Soderling @ 2009 French Open 4th round.


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post #12 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-17-2011, 11:31 AM
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Post Re: Baghdatis/Gonzalez/Tsonga all played as high a level in AO finals as Djokovic/Nad

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Originally Posted by Certinfy View Post
Late 2009 Davydenko would have ripped that Djokovic apart.
Djokovic def Davydenko 3-6, 6-4, 7-5 WTF 2009
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post #13 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-17-2011, 02:30 PM
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Re: Baghdatis/Gonzalez/Tsonga all played as high a level in AO finals as Djokovic/Nad

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Tell that to Tsonga at Wimbledon 2011.

I will be the first one who hope that it happens more often.
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post #14 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-17-2011, 03:14 PM
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Re: Baghdatis/Gonzalez/Tsonga all played as high a level in AO finals as Djokovic/Nad

Gonzo and Baggy really was inspiring IMO
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post #15 of 67 (permalink) Old 12-17-2011, 03:15 PM
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Re: Baghdatis/Gonzalez/Tsonga all played as high a level in AO finals as Djokovic/Nad

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Originally Posted by Shinoj View Post
The Problem with Tsonga,Gonzalez and the lot if that they reach the final and Federer knows about it and he knows for sure that he can beat them easily and he goes in with that belief, and when he goes in with that belief he is very hard to stop... And the opponent also starts believing that Federer cannot be over come.. If the likes of Tsonga and Gonzales had persisted with their top game for a longer time against Federer who knows what the end result would be

Thats the difference between Federer facing a Tsonga and Federer facing Djokovic. Federer goes in with the same belief that He can beat Djokovic but Djokovic in return doesnt give him the leeway whereas likes of Tsonga and Gonzales give him the leeway.
Moving far better and returning way better than either Tsonga or Gonzalez also helps Djoker a lot against Federer.
Against Djoker,Nadal or even Murray, Federer knows he'll have to work very very hard to just win a point and hit through their unbelievable defenses and obviously,that sometimes makes him overplay.
He doesn't have this problem against guys like Tsonga,Gonzalez,Soderling or Berdych as he knows that he can easily produce winners against them because of their relatively poor movement and defense.
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