it's not fair to compare the ATP masters of the past with the ones we have now - MensTennisForums.com

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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-13-2011, 04:55 PM Thread Starter
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it's not fair to compare the ATP masters of the past with the ones we have now

Regarding the idea that federer/nadal have surpassed agassi in that department, i want to say they haven't.

on top of the fact that today's era sucks, it should also be taken into account 3 very objective factors:

1- when tennis wasnt so muggy, some ATP masters had 5-set finals
2- byes for the top players in their first rounds are also a muggy invention (agassi got them too, though).
3- miami and IW didn't last for 2 bloody weeks each. it actually took a massive phsical and mental effort to win them both; now it's much easier.

i think it's fair to say that both federer and nadal could have less ATP 1000 if the conditions would have been without byes in the first round and with best of 5-set finals in some of the tourneys.

and yes, this point has been raised many times but it's still worthy to bring it again given that many tards are already making improper comparisons.

discuss


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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-13-2011, 04:59 PM
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Re: it's not fair to compare the ATP masters of the past with the ones we have now

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Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
Regarding the idea that federer/nadal have surpassed agassi in that department, i want to say they haven't.

on top of the fact that today's era sucks, it should also be taken into account 3 very objective factors:

1- when tennis wasnt so muggy, some ATP masters had 5-set finals
2- byes for the top players in their first rounds are also a muggy invention of the recent years.
3- miami and IW didn't last for 2 bloody weeks each. it actually took a massive phsical and mental effort to win them both; now it's much easier.

i think it's fair to say that both federer and nadal could have less ATP 1000 if the conditions would have been without byes in the first round and with best of 5-set finals in some of the tourneys.

and yes, this point has been raised many times but it's still worthy to bring it again given that many tards are already making improper comparisons.

discuss
A fair bit of Federer's career was spent playing when master's were 5 sets and no byes. The same also applied to Nadal.
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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-13-2011, 04:59 PM
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Re: it's not fair to compare the ATP masters of the past with the ones we have now

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Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
Regarding the idea that federer/nadal have surpassed agassi in that department, i want to say they haven't.

on top of the fact that today's era sucks, it should also be taken into account two objective factors:

1- when tennis wasnt so muggy, some ATP masters had 5-set finals
2- byes for the top players in their first rounds are also a muggy invention of the recent years.

i think it's fair to say that both federer and nadal could have less ATP 1000
if the conditions would have been without byes in the first round and with best of 5-set finals in some of the tourneys.

and yes, this point has been raised many times but it's still worthy to bring it again given that many tards are already making improper comparisons.

discuss
I wish the same. It was definetely better to watch best of 5 finals than these lame 40 minute matches. Many posters think those were of worse quality and lower level but it's not true. The last great final was the Federer-Nalbandian 2005.
The text in bold is true.
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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-13-2011, 05:03 PM
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Re: it's not fair to compare the ATP masters of the past with the ones we have now

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I wish the same. It was definetely better to watch best of 5 finals than these lame 40 minute matches. Many posters think those were of worse quality and lower level but it's not true. The last great final was the Federer-Nalbandian 2005.
The text in bold is true.


wrong you numpty...

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why are you so seriously
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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-13-2011, 05:03 PM
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Re: it's not fair to compare the ATP masters of the past with the ones we have now

Well, Federer won 7 master series in best of 5 finals, the same as Agassi! Master series actually had best of 3 format in the beginning of Agassi's career. So it is pretty even. Nadal won 5 master series with best of 5 finals.

All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-13-2011, 05:04 PM
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Re: it's not fair to compare the ATP masters of the past with the ones we have now

but yes, today, masters series is very muggy...

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why are you so seriously
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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-13-2011, 05:08 PM
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Re: it's not fair to compare the ATP masters of the past with the ones we have now

It's all more fallout from the slower courts, isn't it? No byes, five set finals, back to back M1000. All potentially brutal on the slow hardcourts.
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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-13-2011, 05:35 PM
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Re: it's not fair to compare the ATP masters of the past with the ones we have now

ah, 5 sets finals! Those were the days! I'd definitely like a return to that.

I think for me the most talented of all times was (Marcelo) Rios. Marat Safin, 2004

Marcelo has an enormous talent. Gaudio, RG champion 2004

"Rios ... he has a beautiful game, great forehand and great touch," Federer, World number 1

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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-13-2011, 05:37 PM
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Re: it's not fair to compare the ATP masters of the past with the ones we have now

Once again, Agassi won only 7 finals in best of 5, same as Federer.

All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-13-2011, 05:42 PM
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Re: it's not fair to compare the ATP masters of the past with the ones we have now

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ah, 5 sets finals! Those were the days! I'd definitely like a return to that.
Ditto.
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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-13-2011, 06:29 PM
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Re: it's not fair to compare the ATP masters of the past with the ones we have now

Technically a best of 5 final usually benefits the best players. It's harder to win a 5 seter vs the likes of Federer/Nadal than to win a 3 seter vs them. It would however drain them of more power and probably lead to more injuries/early losses in later tournaments so fair point.

But I do think the 1st round bye means a lot. Every match is a risk for either a loss or an injury no matter what player. Not to mention the top guys usually gets more rest and can walk into tournaments later when the opponent has an extra match in his legs.
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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-13-2011, 06:37 PM
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Re: it's not fair to compare the ATP masters of the past with the ones we have now

Then Ljubicic would've won 2 master series titles if it were from back then 2/3 sets not 3/5
BUT I LOVE 3/5 sets ! Like how Davydenko bitched Hrbaty 6/1 6/2 6/2
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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-13-2011, 07:08 PM
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Re: it's not fair to compare the ATP masters of the past with the ones we have now

the level of competition in the strongest era ever easily makes up for the bys for top players and the lack of 5 set finals for masters.
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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-13-2011, 07:11 PM
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Re: it's not fair to compare the ATP masters of the past with the ones we have now

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the level of competition in the strongest era ever easily makes up for the bys for top players and the lack of 5 set finals for masters.
Bullfuckingshit.

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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 11-13-2011, 07:11 PM
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Re: it's not fair to compare the ATP masters of the past with the ones we have now

5 set finals gimp Mugray would certainly have won fewer but with the extra experience against top players over 5 sets, maybe he'd have a slam.
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