Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2 - Page 5 - MensTennisForums.com
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post #61 of 80 (permalink) Old 10-14-2011, 06:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

Haha. Excuse me for rooting against you on the basis that you're not so naturally talented at arguing but have redeemed yourself somewhat through putting the effort in. You may now be in the MTF top 100 of debaters, but i'd still prefer if someone less dedicated but more talented came along...
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post #62 of 80 (permalink) Old 10-14-2011, 06:14 PM
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Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

Quote:
Originally Posted by green25814 View Post
He also likes Simon.

And is gay.

Think about it.
Just because gay men have good taste in attractiveness, doesn't mean I like tennis players for their looks. It's just a coincidence. And I don't really find Simon or Nadal overly attractive.
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post #63 of 80 (permalink) Old 10-14-2011, 06:19 PM
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Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

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Originally Posted by HattonWBA View Post
I understand that. And your opinion is absolutely fine as are anyone’s, and i generally find no problems with your posts, in fact quite the opposite.

However on this specific subject i don’t understand the need to continuously moan about Ebden's ranking in relation to his talent on every thread made with his name on. Maybe you should be focusing more on criticising these more talented guys instead? Why are they not getting to MS QF's, why are they not 80 in the world? What can they improve to surpass ebden’s achievements and reflect their superiority?
Thank you, I'm glad you like my posts. And I am very critical of players like Bolelli for example, one of my main faves, who is a dumbass and wasting his career. I'm very critical and I get very disappointed in him over and over again. The thing is, though, that with guys like Bolelli not in the top 100, who replaces them? Mediocre players. That's the problem. The problem is these mediocre players are taking up spots that talented players should and would take, if they had their shit together.
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post #64 of 80 (permalink) Old 10-14-2011, 06:24 PM
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Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

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Originally Posted by davidrafael View Post
I understand your point Filo that you don't want to watch hardworkers which arent shotmakers. I respect that. But no one is asking you to go and watch them. Just don't go slagging their achivements off or saying they don't deserve their ranking. And just because you don't like to watch them doesn't mean they don't have talent.

As you've mentioned you understand quite alot about tennis, then surely you would understand theres many more facets that complete a tennis player other than just raw shotmaking.
It's not even about watching them more than they are taking up spots that players that have more ability and bring more to the tour should have, if they weren't underachieving. Also, I never said they had no talent, I said they lack talent in relation to their ranking and in comparison to guys not in the top 100/around them in the rankings.

There is more facets to tennis than shotmaking but it's shotmaking that makes a player talented. That and movement are the two main things. So therefore, that's who I want to see in the draws, talented, athletic players who are interesting. As for the deserving rankings thing, the way I see it is that if the talented players were on their shit, then they would take those spots, so if anything it's their fault that they are where they should be and replacing these mediocre players.
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post #65 of 80 (permalink) Old 10-14-2011, 06:44 PM
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Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

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The problem is these mediocre players are taking up spots that talented players should and would take, if they had their shit together.
"Should, Would, If".....bottom line is, theyre not. Bolleli's own fault he's wasting his talent. Not Ebdens. Ebdens own fault that he's maximising his own talents/what he has...

Quote:
players that have more ability and bring more to the tour should have, if they weren't underachieving.
Again talking should have's....but theyre not. They're underachieving. And as i've been saying this whole time, talent which doesnt work hard IS underachieving. It's like saying "Miles Kasiri should be top 100 now, he was ridiculously talented, there's a spot there waiting for him but mediocre players have taken it.." But where is he now???

And what were his criticisms? His coaches mentioned that he didn't wanna work hard.

Quote:
That and movement are the two main things
Agree on the importance of movement and shotmaking. But you've totally discounted the mental part of the game. Any high standard coach will tell you that's by far the most important. Particularly when by the time the players make top 100, theyre all moving pretty damn good, and they all hit a pretty high standard of shots, and a pretty decent rally ball.

The difference comes down to playing to a high level and being able to sustain that for periods of time, to self belief and believing that you can outmatch a better player on the big points. Also comes down to knowledge of the game, how you read the play, how you can exploit weaknesses, how you can run your patterns and execute your patterns on the big points.

Have seen on many occasions players who had the big flashy game but are absolute fruitcakes who underachieved their whole career cause they couldnt keep it together mentally. On the flip side, i've also seen many players who have been called "ugly" or having "no game" who have "overachieved" and had solid careers cause they have it together mentally.

The other thing regarding peoples talents. You can't really comment on how much someone has developed their talent until the end of the career. If you took Verkerk as an example, you would have a different opinion of how he was using his talent at age 22 for example when he was a journeyman, compared to the end of his career when he had made quite a respectable career for himself.
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post #66 of 80 (permalink) Old 10-14-2011, 06:54 PM
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Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

I agree, it is the fault of the talented players to not fully take advantage of it and do what they should do. But that doesn't mean I'm happy that lesser talents take their place, because the only reason they're there is because of the talented players not getting the job done. The talented players deserve criticism. I'm not critical of guys like Ebden "not deserving" a top 100 spot, but the situation of they being top 100, and not talented players like Bolelli.

Verkerk is a guy who always had talent. He's not like someone like Dodig, who doesn't have a lot of talent. He's a talent who became a player. That's different than a mediocre talent overachieving. That's a guy doing what he should have been doing long before.

Mentality, hard work, these things are obviously important and in many/most cases what separates guys who rise and guys who fall. But none of those things are talents. It's not a talent to be mentally strong. Talent is athleticism, shotmaking ability, ability to play great tennis consistently (or at all). And that is what separates guys like Bolelli from guys like Ebden. Simone can do things Ebden never could, so therefore, I'd want to see him in a draw rather than Ebden, and the fact guys like Ebden are in the draws and he isn't causes a bit of resent and definite disappointment, because it's bullshit. And it's the fault of these talented guys for not handling their business. That's really all it comes down to.
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post #67 of 80 (permalink) Old 10-14-2011, 06:56 PM
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Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

Tennis is like a videogame...

some players like Gulbis has 100 in almost every status.

Others like Ebden has 70/75 etc.


The difference is that Ebden is usually played by a nerd-top spin 7 fan while Gulbis is being played by your grandma.

Think about that.
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post #68 of 80 (permalink) Old 10-14-2011, 07:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

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Originally Posted by Ilovetheblues_86 View Post
Tennis is like a videogame...

some players like Gulbis has 100 in almost every status.

Others like Ebden has 70/75 etc.


The difference is that Ebden is usually played by a nerd-top spin 7 fan while Gulbis is being played by your grandma.

Think about that.
I'm thinking very hard about this...and i'm still struggling a bit...
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post #69 of 80 (permalink) Old 10-14-2011, 07:14 PM
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Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

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Originally Posted by Ilovetheblues_86 View Post
Tennis is like a videogame...

some players like Gulbis has 100 in almost every status.

Others like Ebden has 70/75 etc.


The difference is that Ebden is usually played by a nerd-top spin 7 fan while Gulbis is being played by your grandma.

Think about that.
this is maybe the best post I ever read in my life
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post #70 of 80 (permalink) Old 10-14-2011, 07:23 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

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this is maybe the best post I ever read in my life
I think for once in my life I agree with you
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post #71 of 80 (permalink) Old 10-14-2011, 08:24 PM
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Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

I confess I have never taken any interest in the ACC - so please tell me, is Filo V. top seed?

.

Following ANDY MURRAY and all British tennis on http://www.freewebs.com/britishtennis/stats.html
(click on GB Tennis Forum)
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post #72 of 80 (permalink) Old 10-14-2011, 11:00 PM
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Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

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Andy's so classy
Minus the repeated and yelled profanities at 2-2 in the 1st set. He should've received a violation for that.
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post #73 of 80 (permalink) Old 10-14-2011, 11:08 PM
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Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

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Minus the repeated and yelled profanities at 2-2 in the 1st set. He should've received a violation for that.
He's so sexy when he's angry Also, he never yells them at his opponents or the umpire, just at himself, because he is so classy

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post #74 of 80 (permalink) Old 10-15-2011, 01:40 AM
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Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

Expected result, unfortunately. Edben has nothing to hurt Pushray with, just hand the big mouth another title
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post #75 of 80 (permalink) Old 10-15-2011, 02:20 AM
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Re: Shanghai QF: (2) Murray d. Ebden 6-3 6-2

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Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I agree, it is the fault of the talented players to not fully take advantage of it and do what they should do. But that doesn't mean I'm happy that lesser talents take their place, because the only reason they're there is because of the talented players not getting the job done. The talented players deserve criticism. I'm not critical of guys like Ebden "not deserving" a top 100 spot, but the situation of they being top 100, and not talented players like Bolelli.

Verkerk is a guy who always had talent. He's not like someone like Dodig, who doesn't have a lot of talent. He's a talent who became a player. That's different than a mediocre talent overachieving. That's a guy doing what he should have been doing long before.

Mentality, hard work, these things are obviously important and in many/most cases what separates guys who rise and guys who fall. But none of those things are talents. It's not a talent to be mentally strong. Talent is athleticism, shotmaking ability, ability to play great tennis consistently (or at all). And that is what separates guys like Bolelli from guys like Ebden. Simone can do things Ebden never could, so therefore, I'd want to see him in a draw rather than Ebden, and the fact guys like Ebden are in the draws and he isn't causes a bit of resent and definite disappointment, because it's bullshit. And it's the fault of these talented guys for not handling their business. That's really all it comes down to.
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