Will there be another Roger Federer? - Page 17 - MensTennisForums.com

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post #241 of 332 (permalink) Old 11-30-2011, 11:10 PM
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Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

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Originally Posted by fed4ever View Post
I had posted this on a different message board awhile back under a different username but wanted to bring it out and update it. This myth that Sampras had to face tougher competition is simply a myth.

During Sampras' prime from '93-'98 when he won 10 of his majors, Sampras never beat Edberg, Stich, Krajicek, Rafter, Rios, Kuerten, Moya, Kafelnikov, Philippoussis, Bruguera in a Slam when they were ranked in the top 10. He was 0-5 against these players when they were in the top 10 and was fortunate enough never to have faced many of them when they were. So Sampras' competition is always inflated when people talk about all the tough players he had to beat to win his Slams.

Which top 10 players did Sampras beat from "93-'98 in those 6 years when he was no.1 and who did Federer beat?

US Open - Sampras:
'93 - Chang (7); '94 - noone- lost to Yzaga (23) in the 4th; '95 - Agassi (1); '96 - Ivanisevic (6), Chang (3); '97 - noone - lost to Korda (16) in the 4th ; '98 - Kucera (9), lost to Rafter (3) in semis

So basically, he beat prime Agassi for which he deserves tremendous credit, Chang twice, Ivanisevic who had a poor record on hard courts, Kucera, and lost to Yzaga, Korda, Rafter.

Us Open - Federer:

'03 - noone - lost to Nalbandian (13) in the 4th, '04- Agassi (7), Henman (6), Hewitt (5); '05 - Hewitt (4); Agassi (7); '06 - Blake (7), Davydenko (6), Roddick (10); '07 - Roddick (5), Davydenko (4), Djokovic (3); '08 - Djokovic, Murray .

He beat Djokovic twice, Hewitt twice, Roddick twice, Agassi twice, Davydenko twice; Murray; Blake and Henman.

Conc: I realize Sampras' win over prime Agassi in '95 was probably the toughest matchup, but overall, I would say that Federer has beaten more quality opponents and suffered fewer questionable defeats.


Australian Open - Sampras:

'93 - noone - lost to Edberg (2) in semis ; '94 - Courier (3), '95 - Chang (6), lost to Agassi (2) in final ; '96 - noone - lost to Philippoussis (40) in the 3rd round; '97 - Muster (5); '98 - noone lost to Kucera (20) in the quarters.

Basically, he has wins over Courier, Chang and Muster.

Australian Open - Federer

'03 - noone - lost to Nalbandian (12) in the 4th; '04 - Nalbandian (8) ; Ferrero (3) (pre-chicken pox); '05 - Agassi (8); lost to Safin (4) in the semis; '06 - Davydenko (5); '07 - Robredo (6); Roddick (7); Gonzalez (9); '08 noone lost to Djokovic

Federer has wins over Agassi, Roddick, Ferrero, Nalbandian, Davydenko, Gonzalez and Robredo with fewer bad losses. (Federer also beat Safin in the finals in 2004, but, unfortunately Safin's ranking had slipped because he was injured the year before - it's still probably a scalp better than any of Sampras' wins at the Aussie)

Conc: Federer has beaten tougher competition at the Aussie


French Open- Sampras
'93- noone- lost to Bruguera (11) in Quarters; '94 - noone - lost to Courier (7) in Quarters; '95 - noone - lost to Schaller (24) in 1st round; '96 - Courier (8); lost to Kafelnikov (7) in semis; '97- noone- lost to Norman (65) in 3rd round; '98 - noone - lost to Delgado (97) in 2nd round

He has one victory over Courier and lots of bad losses

French Open - Federer

'03- noone - lost to Horna (88) in 1st round, '04 - noone - lost to Kuerten (30) in 3rd round; '05-noone - lost to Nadal (5) in semis; '06 - Nalbandian (3); lost to Nadal (2) in final; '07- Robredo (9); Davydenko (4) -lost to Nadal (2) in final; '08 noone - lost to Nadal in the final

Federer beat Nalbandian, Robredo, and Davydenko, made it to the finals three times and had fewer bad losses.

Conc: If not for Nadal, Federer would have been a dominant multiple clay-court champion and clearly outperformed Sampras at Roland Garros


Wimbledon- Sampras

'93- Becker (4), Courier (2); '94- Chang (8), Martin (9), Ivanisevic (5); '95 - Ivanisevic(6), Becker (4), "96 - noone - lost to Krajicek in the quarters; '97 - noone; '98- noone

He beat Ivanisevic twice, Becker twice, Courier; Chang and Martin

Wimbledon- Federer
'03- Roddick (6); '04- Hewitt (10); Roddick (2); '05- Hewitt (2), Roddick (4); '06- Ancic (10), Nadal (2); '07- Haas (10) in a walkover; Nadal (2); '08 noone - lost to Nadal

He beat Roddick 3 times, Nadal twice, Hewitt twice; Ancic

Conc: I think Ancic was as good as Martin on grass and Hewitt was better than Courier and Chang. Roddick is on par with Ivanisevic. The evaluation depends on whether we think pre-prime on grass Nadal is as worthy competition as the older Becker that Sampras faced. While Nadal does not have a typical dominant grass game, it's hard to argue with results. Ignoring 2009 since he withdrew, Nadal won twice and made 3 finals between 2006-2011. It's hard for me to say that the old Becker was playing at a higher level than Nadal knowing Nadal's success that follows after 2007.


Overall:
I don't see any substantive evidence to suggest that Sampras beat tougher opponents to win his Slams. On the contrary, I think a strong case can be made that Federer has in fact beaten tougher opponents.

Furthermore, if you don't just look at his wins but look at their losses, you will see that Federer has virtually no bad losses. Starting from Wimbledon '93, Federer only lost to Nalbandian (13) at the US, Guga (30) and Nadal (5, 2, 2, 2) at Roland Garros, Safin (4) and Djokovic (3) at the Australian and Nadal (2) at Wimbledon. Starting from Wimbledon '93, Sampras lost to Yzaga (23) , Korda (16) and Rafter (3) at the US, Philippoussis (40), Kucera (20), Agassi (2) at the Australian; Courier (7), Schaller (24), Kafelnikov (7); Norman (65) and Delgado (97) at the French and Krajicek (13) at Wimbledon.

Take a long hard look at the data from the 6 years of Sampras' prime and the 6 years of Federer's prime and then tell me who faced tougher competition and who was losing to pigeons.
Good stuff.



Roger Federer ♦ David Goffin ♦ Mikhail Youzhny ♦ Gilles Simon ♦ Dustin Brown ♦ Pierre-Hugues Herbert


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post #242 of 332 (permalink) Old 11-30-2011, 11:22 PM
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Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

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Originally Posted by Nathaniel_Near View Post
MJ was clearly the greatest player of his era like Federer is, and he had a lot of problems in overcoming Bird's Celtics and Magic's Lakers to claim an NBA title. In fact, he toiled away for 7 or 8 years until he got one, by which point he was in his late 20's.
SetSampras tendency to create a false reality once more exposed



"When I'm asked, how is it to be around Federer, and what is he really like, I always reply, "I wish people could meet him when cameras or an audience aren't around, as he is one of the nicest people I have ever met when stringing on tour. " -- drakulie
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post #243 of 332 (permalink) Old 11-30-2011, 11:27 PM
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Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

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Originally Posted by Nathaniel_Near View Post
MJ was clearly the greatest player of his era like Federer is, and he had a lot of problems in overcoming Bird's Celtics and Magic's Lakers to claim an NBA title. In fact, he toiled away for 7 or 8 years until he got one, by which point he was in his late 20's.
well thats the issue with comparing individual to team sports however.. MJ had scrubs to play with in the 80s. But still only one guy was more dominant then MJ, at his repsective sport and thats Gretzky.. You can scratch old Rog off the list. He isn't even the most dominant in the history of tennis.
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post #244 of 332 (permalink) Old 11-30-2011, 11:45 PM
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Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

I hope there will not be another Olderer. Tennis could use less arrogant players.
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post #245 of 332 (permalink) Old 12-01-2011, 12:32 AM
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Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

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Originally Posted by SetSampras View Post
well thats the issue with comparing individual to team sports however.. MJ had scrubs to play with in the 80s. But still only one guy was more dominant then MJ, at his repsective sport and thats Gretzky.. You can scratch old Rog off the list. He isn't even the most dominant in the history of tennis.
2004-2006 tennis is one of the most dominant period in sports history.

On Topic:
I do hope that there's a supremely talented kid out there that's learning the Federer game. And, dare I say it, even perfecting it.
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post #246 of 332 (permalink) Old 12-01-2011, 01:37 AM
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Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

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You are pathetic.
jajajaj poor setsampras his fanatism for sampras made him write bullshits jajajaja

the excuses of weak era are bullshits of sampras`s tard or some rafa`s tards.

sampras is the man who won slams without faced a top30 or top10 player!!!
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post #247 of 332 (permalink) Old 12-01-2011, 01:40 AM
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Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

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Originally Posted by SetSampras View Post
Fed has NEVER dominated to the degree Wayne Greztzky did. He never even dominated to the degree Tiger Woods did. His "dominance" is highly exaggerated and when put into context. Fed was what 2-7 in the big matches vs. big dogs this year and 0 slams and title-less over a 9 month period? Hes never been able to dominate in his main rival. His dominance goes over the pidgeons.
what a bullshit ajajaj

federer this year has 30 years old and was the only man who defeat and complicated nole.

big dogs jajajaja.

sampras`s dominancy was over a irregular player and out of tennis for 2 years!!!! a joke....

the same agassi said that he really interested in tennis when was too late
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post #248 of 332 (permalink) Old 12-01-2011, 02:17 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

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Originally Posted by Topspindoctor View Post
I hope there will not be another Olderer. Tennis could use less arrogant players.
C'mon, even you will be bored if everyone is Nadal, no?

And since when Nadal isn't arrogant?

What's wrong being arrogant if U are that good?


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post #249 of 332 (permalink) Old 12-01-2011, 02:18 AM
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Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

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Originally Posted by paseo View Post
2004-2006 tennis is one of the most dominant period in sports history.

On Topic:
I do hope that there's a supremely talented kid out there that's learning the Federer game. And, dare I say it, even perfecting it.
2004-2006 was a complete TRASH mug era consisting of baby Nadal who had not yet even prime until 08 as a legit all surface threat, Mugs like Roddick, Davydenko, Blake, Ljubicic, Baghaditis, Gonzales... Old Broken down sciatica-riddened Agassi needing corizone shots after every match yet still reaching slam finals when he wouldn't even had come close in a legit era like the 80s or early-mid 90s.. Or Slam-no show Nalbandian or Show up once every 5 years Safin.

Its no wonder Fed dominated to such degree. It was a perfect time to dominate. We see when there are legimitate talents on top now though. Fed can't nor would he ever have dominated the slams to such a degree. .. Unlike during that mug era
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post #250 of 332 (permalink) Old 12-01-2011, 02:33 AM
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Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

Er, Fed is 30 this year. He's been playing pro tennis since 1998. WTF are you talking about.

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Fed's groundstrokes never were that good to begin with.
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post #251 of 332 (permalink) Old 12-01-2011, 04:34 AM
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Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

MJ never won a playoff series without Pippen.

MJ only won in the weak 90s when Magic, Bird and Isiah were past their primes.

Not to mention MJ had no competition at the Wing position. And no, Clyde Drexler, Penny Hardaway and Grant hill were not competition, so spare me.
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post #252 of 332 (permalink) Old 12-01-2011, 05:32 AM
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Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

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MJ never won a playoff series without Pippen.

MJ only won in the weak 90s when Magic, Bird and Isiah were past their primes.

Not to mention MJ had no competition at the Wing position. And no, Clyde Drexler, Penny Hardaway and Grant hill were not competition, so spare me.
Michael jordan would be a polarizing figure in ANY era.

Did you see the team he had to go against when facing bird/magic or the pistons?

He had scrubs on his team... and he played against legendary players.
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post #253 of 332 (permalink) Old 12-01-2011, 05:42 AM
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Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

One thing is for sure, if MJ had played in the 2000s, he wouldn't have the whole media in his pocket. Yes, he'd be polarizing, but for different reasons...
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post #254 of 332 (permalink) Old 12-01-2011, 07:06 AM
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Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

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One thing is for sure, if MJ had played in the 2000s, he wouldn't have the whole media in his pocket. Yes, he'd be polarizing, but for different reasons...
dood.. if mj played in the 2000s, he would average 40 ppg easy
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post #255 of 332 (permalink) Old 12-01-2011, 07:24 AM
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Re: Will there be another Roger Federer?

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Originally Posted by SetSampras View Post
Its no wonder Fed dominated to such degree. It was a perfect time to dominate. We see when there are legimitate talents on top now though. Fed can't nor would he ever have dominated the slams to such a degree. .. Unlike during that mug era
Your argument is completely biased and very imbalanced, which always seems to be the case when you talk about Federer. It's clear that you dislike Federer and his achievements, but it's not clear why.

Another way of looking at it is that Federer dominated over 2004-2007 because he was playing at his peak, and was able to keep up a very high level for long periods in a match. Since 2008, age is starting to catch up with him. Also, don't forget that Federer married and had 2 kids since 2007. If those aren't significant distractions, I don't know what are. It's nice to see that Federer appears to be enjoying himself and is developing a family while still playing great tennis. Also, for those who so clearly hate Federer, at least he has a (Mum, Dad) wife and 2 kids who love him. Those who express their hate so much on internet forums like this probably have missed out on love like this in their lives.

warm regards...

6-2, 6-3, 6-2 and 6-2, 6-2, 6-2 and 6-3, 6-0 (and not even finals).
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