federer`s service changes??? - MensTennisForums.com

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post #1 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-23-2011, 03:40 AM Thread Starter
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federer`s service changes???

it`s possible that federer`s service changes since his back`s injury in 2009?????

because I read that, especially the archery of is back
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post #2 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-23-2011, 09:25 AM
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Re: federer`s service changes???

I've seen some changes esp since last year, since he went with Annacone, which according to some are rather tactical changes.

Overall his stats on serve have not decreased but it's true that he kinds of plays it differently, often I have the impression he forces it less.

And also he has long periods of bad services which imo he did not have as many before.

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post #3 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-23-2011, 10:00 AM
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Re: federer`s service changes???

I don't think so. He didn't change his serve motion, at least not that noticeably I would remark it. Average serve speed hasn't dropped as well, probably it's just tactics.
Federer has never been a ace machine, nowadays there are some really good returners like Djokovic or Murray, so against them it may look like Roger's serve has fallen apart.

When it comes to play with mediocre players, Fed''s serve is still there and he makes a lot of cheap points, usually Dodger doesn't drop his serve in early rounds so I guess everything is okay.

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post #4 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-23-2011, 10:54 AM
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Re: federer`s service changes???

definitely down a couple of gears since 2006. immense rhythm in those years. he has lost that serving 'zone' and atleast some 5-10% power.
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post #5 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-23-2011, 11:35 AM
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Re: federer`s service changes???

Federer in 2009 was hitting some of his hardest serves. I don't think the service motion has changed - it is still notoriously difficult to read - but moreover it can be counterproductive to radically alter the serve at this stage in his career (take a look at Djokovic's failed experiment with Todd Martin for example). I feel that the potency of his first serve has declined somewhat from what it was in 2004-7 and I haven't checked but I would assume that his serving stats have decreased a little. Also during that period his serve hardly ever failed in terms of consistency, but now it seems to have a random propensity to go missing for entire sets.

That said, I think that some of the points above are quite true. It does seem as if he arches his back a little less than he used to do in his younger days but aside from preventing injury to an already troubled back, this could be as he doesn't want to hit it flat out. With the returners in the game today, it is more likely that these kinds of serves will be hit back with interest. I've noticed that rather he has worked on precision, spin and placement recently; for instance he used the slower kick serve out wide to Nadal's backhand very effectively in the final of the WTF.
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post #6 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-23-2011, 12:06 PM
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Re: federer`s service changes???

anyway, it's not at all his main decline which are about his mobility and forehand.

His average stats on serve have not declined, maybe the consistency.

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post #7 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-23-2011, 12:52 PM
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Re: federer`s service changes???

I think Federer needs to serve more into the body. Roger aims for corners, and guys like Djokovic and Nadal can take one step or two, stick a racquet out, and get it back deep.

If he serves into the body more, it is more difficult to get out of your own way, which will draw more errors and short balls.

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post #8 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-23-2011, 01:55 PM
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Re: federer`s service changes???

His serve speed hasn't changed?

I don't know what are you guys talking about. His serve speed has realy gone down in last 12 months or so, we rarely see him get serves over 200 km/h (125 m/h) and it used to be a common thing for him; he was always varying speed of his serve during matches but always had a good number of 200 km/h or above serves, I realy don't remember seeing him with those fast serves in the last few months( now it seems that even nadal serves faster than him )
And when you say he never was an ace machine, i would disagree on that too, he used to regulary get around 15 or more aces in GS matches, and when the things got tense he would often serve more than 20 aces ( remember nadal in 2007/08 wimb finals, roddick 2009 wimb final, tipsarevic 2008? AO and a lot more of those...) Thats gone too
And he's serve has realy become mediocre and inconsistent, when he's 15-40 down on his serve you dont realy hope he's s gone bang a couple of aces and a couple of service winers, you just now he's gonna lose his serve...

Thats how i see things (and I watch his almost every match), maybe I'm wrong but...
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post #9 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-23-2011, 02:05 PM
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Re: federer`s service changes???

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Originally Posted by barahmasa View Post
His serve speed hasn't changed?

I don't know what are you guys talking about. His serve speed has realy gone down in last 12 months or so, we rarely see him get serves over 200 km/h (125 m/h) and it used to be a common thing for him; he was always varying speed of his serve during matches but always had a good number of 200 km/h or above serves, I realy don't remember seeing him with those fast serves in the last few months( now it seems that even nadal serves faster than him )
And when you say he never was an ace machine, i would disagree on that too, he used to regulary get around 15 or more aces in GS matches, and when the things got tense he would often serve more than 20 aces ( remember nadal in 2007/08 wimb finals, roddick 2009 wimb final, tipsarevic 2008? AO and a lot more of those...) Thats gone too
And he's serve has realy become mediocre and inconsistent, when he's 15-40 down on his serve you dont realy hope he's s gone bang a couple of aces and a couple of service winers, you just now he's gonna lose his serve...

Thats how i see things (and I watch his almost every match), maybe I'm wrong but...
I also have the impression that his serve speed has declined, but I also see that sometimes it's tactical : esp that wide kick serve on ad side which he's often used since last year and which is quite slow.

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post #10 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-23-2011, 02:13 PM
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Re: federer`s service changes???

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I also have the impression that his serve speed has declined, but I also see that sometimes it's tactical : esp that wide kick serve on ad side which he's often used since last year and which is quite slow.
Maybe it is tactical but I don't see that tactic working (except WTF against Nadal). He realy dominated with his serve when he hit them bigger,even the guys like nadal and djokovic, now he's struggling and doesn't get many free points on his service games. I don't know why is slowing down his serve when it doesn't work, sampras served pretty much the same in his old days as he did during his prime...
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post #11 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-23-2011, 02:56 PM
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Re: federer`s service changes???

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Originally Posted by barahmasa View Post
Maybe it is tactical but I don't see that tactic working (except WTF against Nadal). He realy dominated with his serve when he hit them bigger,even the guys like nadal and djokovic, now he's struggling and doesn't get many free points on his service games. I don't know why is slowing down his serve when it doesn't work, sampras served pretty much the same in his old days as he did during his prime...
yes yes I had the same wonders sometimes, I thought it was a physical problem but heard it was tactical

Sometimes I could see the interest but most of the time I would just prefer him to go for it, my God

Also because it doesn't seem to help his first serve percentage, which would be a good reason for that but not really.

Anyway I don't miss his past serve, only his past movement and forehand

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post #12 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-23-2011, 02:58 PM
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Re: federer`s service changes???

maybe a little bit, i cannot see any significant changes. He's of course less flexible now than in 09.
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post #13 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-23-2011, 03:21 PM
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Re: federer`s service changes???

his serve is utter shit nowadays

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post #14 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-23-2011, 03:30 PM
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Re: federer`s service changes???

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his serve is utter shit nowadays
This. You could rely on him to serve at least one or two good 1st serves during a pressure situation like 15-40 but nowadays you tend to wait for the inevitable break.

I don't know if it is due to motion change or changes between the ears or a bit of both but he is unable to rely on it when he needs it the most.

I concur with Johny that he definitely needs to add more body serves to his arsenal.

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post #15 of 46 (permalink) Old 03-23-2011, 03:30 PM
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Re: federer`s service changes???

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Originally Posted by duong View Post

Anyway I don't miss his past serve, only his past movement and forehand
Well those things are usualy affected by the age factor so I can understand the fall in that department;
The serve usualy stays very musch the same even when the players are long past their prime, that's why i don't undestand his crapy new serve. But the serve is also affected by psychological factors, self belief is very important for the good serve, i think that's the area where his problems with serve start.
I hope there are no problems with his body that contribute too...
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