Todd Martin with Djokovic: The worst coaching stint in tennis history? - Page 6 - MensTennisForums.com

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post #76 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 05:36 PM
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Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

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Originally Posted by Alex999 View Post
Todd Martin tried to fix something that was working very well. Novak didn't have a problem with his serve at all. I don't know how many slams he could have won. I don't even know how he managed to stay #3 2009/10 with all of DF, non existing serve etc.
From Tom Perrotta of ESPN:

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Djokovic reportedly asked Martin to help him change his motion in hopes of preventing a recurrence of shoulder pain he suffered last year. The result was an ugly motion that looked more likely to induce pain. Again, that's not Martin's doing. Changing the ingrained technique of a tennis player isn't as simple as laser eye surgery. What a coach tells a player to do is one thing; how a player executes those commands is another.
Not sure it was working too well if Djokovic sought a change in motion due to physical ailments. Other sources confirm the same story.

Also, let's remember that Martin didn't sign on with Djokovic until late (August) in 2009. It's not exactly like he was at a higher place before signing on with Martin.
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post #77 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 05:37 PM
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Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

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Originally Posted by Nole Rules View Post
I don't think Nole is a big underachiever. He underachieved a bit but the real big underachievers are the likes of Nalbandian.
I don't think Nole has underachieved at all. He's achieving exactly what his talent/potential should allow him in ideal conditions. He's a great example of a player living up to his potential.
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post #78 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 05:52 PM
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Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

Djokovic forum! DJOKOVIC FORUM!! Did I make myself clear enough?

I love attacking tennis

FEDERER - DEL POTRO - DIMITROV
Tsonga Haas Nishikori Wawrinka
Cilic Djokovic Gulbis Kyrgios

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post #79 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 05:56 PM
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Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

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IF i am correct Martin was his co-couch since august 2009 until april 2010 so which slams are we talking about ? Actually 2009 was great season, he just didn´t make slam F, USO loss to Roger was expected , than 2010 was bad, serving like WTA and low confidence - o.k Australia - he retired vs Tsonga, back than he was ,,old,, physically weak Djokovic, no way he would have beaten both Roger and Andy in F.. RG - o.k that loss to Melzer pathetic but Nadal would spank him

Wimby 2010 - grass is still his worst surface no way he would defeated Nadal in Wimby F - with the confidence he had, even Berdych in form would be maybe to good vs more confident Nole

Than USO 2010 was o.k he just los to Nadal didn´t have the self-believe back than vs him

So which slams are we talking about?

The problem with Martin was serve wise - he was trying to improove his serve, but he failed he totally destroyed his timing or whatever and his serve was pathetic - than with this and making more DF´s than Verdasco lead to huge confidence letdown - also it all started in 2009 in Madrid vs Nadal with that super long 3 setter and MP´s wasted. His 2009 wasn´t that bad he just wasn´t confident enough to face Roger or Rafa in slams - than 2010 including few montshs with Martin meant that he was serving like crap - so his confidence not only vs Rafa-Nole but also generally speaking vs probably at lowest point in years. Than it all changed in 2010 USO MP vs Roger and Davis cup was just last needed boost for Nole 2.0 - but there are other things like that gluten free diet and his stamina-fitness improovement. Without Martin his serve wouldn´b e so bad but his confidence suffered alredy in 2009 in Madrid, that guy had fantastic clay season, 2nd best player on clay after Nadal, i would bet that with Nadal´s loos to Soderling Novak would have won that RG 2009, but after Madrid he was broken- he lost 3 clay matches vs Nadal that clay season. So even with better serve and not so low confident - no way he wins Wimbledon, no way he wins RG 2010, in Australia - ,,old,, Nole physically weak - can´t stand up the heat and sickness whatever - maybe USO 2010 would be better somehow, but he already was playing great and had the self-believe after Roger´s match.
Well said, everything.



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post #80 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 05:59 PM
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Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

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As for Fish and Roddick: Fish usually kept it kind close and isn't routinely blown out, so him running off with a win is not surprising. It's undeniable that he has the type of game that can win against Federer. And Roddick has beaten Federer before 2008, so you can't exactly say mono is what determined the match. Besides, Federer has had worse losses in Masters (Canas and Hrbty come to mind), whereas both Fish and Roddick to their credit have finished inside the top 10. Did he have mono in those losses, too?

Fed may or may not have had mono, but if he did, it was not what led to his losses that year. Unless, of course, we're saying that he goes undefeated in 2008 without mono.....
Federer had problems against player of the Canas type, not of the Fish type. And Hrbaty was clearly a tank. Surprises can happen all the time in tennis, but 4 surprises in the same period, 2 months after he won WTF convincingly, and in tournaments in which he a lot of success before seem a little too much. Maybe he was passing a bad period of form or maybe 4 other players started all playing better in the same period (unlikely). But why not him being a LITTLE impaired from a psychical condition which is well known to affect strength and stamina

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That will be the last victory of Rafa for quite some time.. With his joke mentality and pathetic game, I hope the disgusting player loses every single match next season. He's disgraceful. He should just retire. He's a joke.
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post #81 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 05:59 PM
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Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

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He would probably have fewer slams NOW. The learning experience plus the need to go to new-fangled methods and magical non-gluten when he was clearly inferior to Fed and Nadal was what caused the 2011 run. In 2008, despite winning the AO impressively, he was schooled at other Slams, so he was not going to mow through the tour or anything. Then he got greedy and changed his racket, which has rarely been a good idea for a pro at that level. It was only when Roger fucked up that USO SF in 2010 that he acquired a bit of a false aura and the rest followed.

If Federer did not have mono?

If Nadal did not have knee issues?

If Nalbandian had not eaten that cheeseburger in 2005? etc.
Bullshit. Nole was never schooled in any Grand Slam.
He was inmature, he had too many physical problems, specially allergies and heat exposure, his serve was ruined... lack of confidence and belief against Fedal like the rest of the tour... those were the factors. Also the pressure from his family and country, the change or racket... nothing of that helped.



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post #82 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 06:02 PM
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Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

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Originally Posted by Alex999 View Post
Todd Martin tried to fix something that was working very well. Novak didn't have a problem with his serve at all. I don't know how many slams he could have won. I don't even know how he managed to stay #3 2009/10 with all of DF, non existing serve etc.
The problem was not his serve which was already very good, but the serving motion. Novak at that time was reported to have shoulder ache because of his serving motion and they tried to change it to see if that could relieve the pain. Then he had a weird case of loss of muscle memory.



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post #83 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 06:16 PM
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Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
I don't think Nole has underachieved at all. He's achieving exactly what his talent/potential should allow him in ideal conditions. He's a great example of a player living up to his potential.
I think he should have 1-2 more slams (one more from this year and one in 2009 or 2010). But he has a chance to make up for it.
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post #84 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 06:36 PM
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Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

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Bullshit. Nole was never schooled in any Grand Slam.
He was inmature, he had too many physical problems, specially allergies and heat exposure, his serve was ruined... lack of confidence and belief against Fedal like the rest of the tour... those were the factors. Also the pressure from his family and country, the change or racket... nothing of that helped.
He lost in straights to Safin (who said grass is for cows) at Wimbledon . Routine wins for Nadal and Fed at RG, USO. As for the rest, maturity, allergies, physical problems, lack of belief, cry me a river. All part and parcel of being a player in a competitive sport. You might as well say 'If David Ferrer was better than everybody else all the time and had no physical problems, letdowns, loss of motivation and competitive rivals, how many Slams would he have won?'

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Federer is a tennis god. Big john (Isner) was lucky to be a witness to what was on show today. Tough match vs Seppi next round
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The foaming-at-the-mouth blind fanboyism and double standards of these posts (F. mates) is so overwhelming that it strikes me as a self-parody.

"Tough match?" World #3 Federer's ("greatest player to have ever played the game," you just said before rushing off the bathroom to change your underwear) H2H against World #58 Seppi is 6-0.

If it wasn't tough, Federer's victory would not be as glorious and godlike! Naturally, if Seppi and Isner were in Nadal's side of the draw, any victory that he managed to scrape out against these Tough Titans of Tennis would be pure luck!
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post #85 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 08:49 PM
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Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

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He lost in straights to Safin (who said grass is for cows) at Wimbledon . Routine wins for Nadal and Fed at RG, USO. As for the rest, maturity, allergies, physical problems, lack of belief, cry me a river. All part and parcel of being a player in a competitive sport. You might as well say 'If David Ferrer was better than everybody else all the time and had no physical problems, letdowns, loss of motivation and competitive rivals, how many Slams would he have won?'
Most wins from federer at USO were really close. Nole also chocked the USO 2007.



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post #86 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 08:57 PM
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Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

I know Todd Martin truly "experimented" (messed up more accurate) with Djokovic's serve, but wasn't he having issues prior to his appointment? Didn't he change his racquet sponsor in '09, therefore his racquet? That would have taken some time to get used to surely.
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post #87 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 09:03 PM
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Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

Imagine what would have been if Fed didn't have mono

La Undécima
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post #88 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 09:08 PM
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Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

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Imagine what would have been if Fed didn't have mono
most pathetic myth ever.......Soderling had mono that's mono
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post #89 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 09:11 PM
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Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

Martin ruining Nole's serve is even more pathetic myth. How someone who had better serve than Nole could have ruined his serve. If Nole needed excuse he should have employed Chang to improve his serve and net play. Rookie mistake

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post #90 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 09:48 PM
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Re: If Djokovic didn't have the Todd Martin debacle

Novak Djokovic needed to find himself and what worked best for him during his struggles in 2009, to truly blossom into the elite player he is today.
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