Will Federer's idea of taking pace of the 1st serve start a new trend ? - MensTennisForums.com

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-21-2010, 10:03 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
alter ego's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Age: 28
Posts: 5,019
                     
Will Federer's idea of taking pace of the 1st serve start a new trend ?

As I'm sure most of you have notice since Toronto Roger has a new style of serving the first ball. He mixes up fast flat serves with what looks like classic 2nd serves ( more topsin or slice rather than power). Thus you see him nowadays serving the 2nd serve faster than the first.

To see the reason for this change I think we must go back to what he said after his RG defeat aginst Soderling:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Federer
Because, I mean, these were some serious, tough conditions, you know. If you serve 225, 230, you can still hit through the court on the serve.
I may be lacking those 5 to 10ks extra on the serve to hit through a guy on the serve, but that's the way conditions are. I can't complain, because it was the same for both of us.
After RG I saw Roger hitting some very fast serves in Halle. Up to 220. But after Wimbledon he said he had some minor back problems. Could it be that those extra 5 to 10 ks were the ones that trgigered them ? Pretty likely.
So what I think might have happened was Roger realizing that he was hurting himself trying to go for more power and decided to change his new approach by 180 degrees .
Today we see that the top players stay 2-3 m behind the baseline from where they can eassily return a 200+kph serve (the most obvious case being Nadal).But dosen't those 2-3 m behind the baseline make them vulerable if they have to return a slow slice serve insted of the big flat serve ? Hell YEAH!
If you can mix flat serves with 100 mph kickers I'm sure that even the best returnes in the game Nadal, Murray, Nalbandain will have major issues.
Of course today Roger's serve is at it's most vulnerable point in the last 7 years because of the changes but I think this new dimension of the serve could be the future.

Last edited by alter ego; 08-21-2010 at 11:19 AM.
alter ego is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-21-2010, 10:30 AM
Registered User
 
fsoica's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,316
                     
Re: Will Federer's idea of taking pace of the 1st serve start a new trend ?

nice insights, but i wonder if even federer is aware of those strategies, or it's only our vivid imagination

Q. Do you think you would have been able to play as well as you played today, or you think you would have pulled out from the game if it wasn't the Masters Cup final?

ROGER FEDERER: No, Roger Federer doesn't pull out. Otherwise he doesn't walk on court (smiling).


After losing to Nalbandian in 2005 TMC final...
fsoica is offline  
post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-21-2010, 10:32 AM
Registered User
 
ApproachShot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,542
                     
Re: Will Federer's idea of taking pace of the 1st serve start a new trend ?

I think so. I've always wondered to be honest why players don't mix up hard, flat first serves with slower wide kickers (like in cricket where a couple of overs of fast deliveries with bouncers etc will be followed by the odd slower yorker that often gets the wicket). It keeps the opponent guessing and more unsure of their optimal court positioning for receiving the ball.

Furthermore, with so many people watching and trying to emulate Federer's game I doubt that this new tactic will go unnoticed amongst the pro players - especially if he he has reasonable success with the new strategy.
ApproachShot is offline  
post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-21-2010, 10:38 AM
Registered User
 
Roamed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,725
                     
Re: Will Federer's idea of taking pace of the 1st serve start a new trend ?

Not exactly sure but I think there was a problem with the Halle speed gun, I seem to remember most people were serving above average there. Roger's always had an awesome serve though without it ever being very fast.

Will Federer regain the #1 spot and break Sampras's record for most weeks at the top?

Roger // Rafa // Raonic // Söderling // Goffin // Ivo // Wawrinka // Baker // Delpo
Roamed is offline  
post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-21-2010, 11:01 AM
Registered User
 
Sophocles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Age: 42
Posts: 8,991
                     
Re: Will Federer's idea of taking pace of the 1st serve start a new trend ?

Depends how many players have back problems.

"There is no such thing as 'the world'." - Enoch Powell.
Sophocles is offline  
post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-21-2010, 11:15 AM
Registered User
 
borracho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Age: 38
Posts: 319
                     
Re: Will Federer's idea of taking pace of the 1st serve start a new trend ?

Sounds very reasonable. Varying your serve indeed forces your opponent to return earlier, further it's very easy to get adjusted to a player who serves everything full speed.

But this is not a new concept tho.
borracho is offline  
post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-21-2010, 11:22 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,547
                     
Re: Will Federer's idea of taking pace of the 1st serve start a new trend ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alter ego View Post
Today we see that the top players stay 2-3 m behind the baseline from where they can eassily return a 200+kph serve (the most obvious case being Nadal).
Nadal is standing closer to baseline to return nowadays. That's why his returns has been pathetic. He's not used to it yet.

As for Fed, I think the the 1st serve variation is one of Annacone influence. Aside from the aggressive returns.
paseo is offline  
post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-21-2010, 11:35 AM
Registered User
 
dombrfc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 4,216
                     
Re: Will Federer's idea of taking pace of the 1st serve start a new trend ?

Good observations.
Variation is key to his success on serve.
He seems to have discovered a kick serve wide from the ad court too... far from a common play fro Fed in previous years.

A rats
dombrfc is offline  
post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-21-2010, 11:51 AM
Banned!
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,262
                     
Re: Will Federer's idea of taking pace of the 1st serve start a new trend ?

Federer must protect his back that's probably why he changed his movement. Edberg did the same for the same reason
nalbyfan is offline  
post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-21-2010, 11:52 AM
10S NE1
 
MacTheKnife's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Posts: 10,575
                     
Re: Will Federer's idea of taking pace of the 1st serve start a new trend ?

A lot of guys working on the off speed pitch right now.. Not just federer. So many guys are forced to "guess" and lean one way or the other right on 1st serve direction, that off speed stuff is really working.

YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS
MacTheKnife is offline  
post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-21-2010, 06:46 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,218
                     
Re: Will Federer's idea of taking pace of the 1st serve start a new trend ?

Taking speed off at Cinci is rational for a lot of guys - even a reduced speed ball there from a big server is often unreturnable.
philosophicalarf is offline  
post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-21-2010, 06:56 PM
country flag HKz
Hakeem
 
HKz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mesa
Posts: 5,234
                     
Re: Will Federer's idea of taking pace of the 1st serve start a new trend ?

Well it is a decent strategy to mix it up that way on a fast surface, but sometimes his choice of who/when he should employ that kick serve as a first serve is kind of strange. For example, against Berdych last week, in the third set, I think he was kicking most of his first serves in on the ad side. Berdych didn't have too much trouble dealing with it if I remember correctly..

I think he could of used this strategy against Davydenko a little more however.

Federer / Haas / Safin / Gaudio / Kuerten / Youzhny / Nadal / Gonzalez / Ljubicic / Hewitt / Soderling / Wawrinka / Coria / Nalbandian / Kohlschreiber
HKz is offline  
post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-21-2010, 07:02 PM
Registered User
 
pray-for-palestine-and-israel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: uk, north
Age: 34
Posts: 3,728
                     
Re: Will Federer's idea of taking pace of the 1st serve start a new trend ?

good strategy

of course, without serve and volley tennis feels dead, but we will have a player come through who can play as effectively a the net as he can from the baseline, and therefore rebirth of S&V and tennis will live again

but untill that player comes, rogi is the est we have, and always the most entertaining player to watch

God is Love. To know Love is to know God. So ask yourself if you hold any hate for another in your heart how can you have room for Love, room for God
pray-for-palestine-and-israel is offline  
post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-21-2010, 07:06 PM
King of Queens
 
Sapeod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 21
Posts: 41,595
                     
Re: Will Federer's idea of taking pace of the 1st serve start a new trend ?

Probably won't start a trend, but certainly helps him with his back problems.

ANDY MURRAY

SLAMS: 3 WINS, 8 finals, 9 semi-finals, 7 quarter-finals...
WORLD TOUR FINALS: 3 semi-finals...
MASTERS: 12 WINS, 6 finals, 13 semi-finals, 18 quarter-finals...
OLYMPICS: 2 gold medals, 1 silver...
DAVIS CUP: 2016 champion...
MATCH WIN/LOSS: 602-172...
TITLES: 39 and counting...
Sapeod is offline  
post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-21-2010, 07:07 PM
Banned!
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 10,179
                     
Re: Will Federer's idea of taking pace of the 1st serve start a new trend ?

no trend nothing.......a returner like nalbandian will blast return winners if fed keeps trying these wide kickserves on first serves against him.......these experiments only work against lesser players.......first serve is first serve, should be powerful and accurate and advantageous to the server.......trying to take pace off it very often makes no sense.......

i am not buying this bad back bullshit by the way......anyone feels the pain if they try too hard for something.......his serve never had the kind of pace roddick has for example, how can it be different now? he has lived with that serve for years and how can he change it and speed it up at this stage of the career? if he couldn't fire down 230 k serves consistently during his mid 20s, how did he expect of himself to serve at that speed at this age? looks foolish.......
Start da Game is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the MensTennisForums.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome