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post #1 of 83 (permalink) Old 05-02-2010, 07:00 PM Thread Starter
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When is the last time..?

... we've all seen a really entertaining MS final? Something truly memorable; something we could term a classic?

I really can't remember a really good one unless I go back a while. Yeah, we've had some decent ones, but nothing truly special.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm kind of losing interest in these events and this all started when the atp decided to eliminate best-of-five finals.

Not only that, but I also suspect (speculate) that players no longer feel the same way either. I may be off on this, but I believe that many events - especially the likes of Rome and Miami - are losing their prestige due to the aforementioned change.

Rome was an enormous event at one point in time and we all remember the great finals like Nadal-Coria and Nadal-Federer. But now it's just another warm-up tourney for RG - Federer shows up, but not in spirit; gets ousted by Gulbis and doesn't even seem to care. I believe that this is all at least partially a result of the declining prestige of the MS tourney.

Do you guys still remember Indian Wells? Ljubicic beat Roddick in the final, but I don't think he would have won that match had it been a best-of-fiver. Ljuba is old and not a great mover, but he put everything he had into those two sets, knowing perfectly well that he had to win both. A best-of-five match would have been a classic comeback from Roddick and a likely five-set victory.

But these kinds of opportunities are wasted now. These finals feel short and insignificant. I think that the fans are getting robbed of great tennis. The players don't seem to care and are just saving up the energies for the grand slam. What are the organizers thinking? Every MS event, to provide a metaphor, feels like the minor leagues. A cheap imitation of the real deal.

I fear that the sport is in serious decay right now and something needs to be done. Bring back the best-of-five final; bring back exciting comebacks and the prospect of long and entertaining matches.

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post #2 of 83 (permalink) Old 05-02-2010, 07:04 PM
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Re: When is the last time..?

Some good points in this post.

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post #3 of 83 (permalink) Old 05-02-2010, 07:05 PM
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Re: When is the last time..?

The draws have been partly to blame also. Rafa and Novak have had a couple of thrillers on clay that would have been awesome finals, but they were in the same half.
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post #4 of 83 (permalink) Old 05-02-2010, 07:06 PM
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Re: When is the last time..?

By entertaining you mean tight or high-leveled?
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post #5 of 83 (permalink) Old 05-02-2010, 07:07 PM
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Re: When is the last time..?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CyBorg View Post
... we've all seen a really entertaining MS final? Something truly memorable; something we could term a classic?

I really can't remember a really good one unless I go back a while. Yeah, we've had some decent ones, but nothing truly special.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm kind of losing interest in these events and this all started when the atp decided to eliminate best-of-five finals.

Not only that, but I also suspect (speculate) that players no longer feel the same way either. I may be off on this, but I believe that many events - especially the likes of Rome and Miami - are losing their prestige due to the aforementioned change.

Rome was an enormous event at one point in time and we all remember the great finals like Nadal-Coria and Nadal-Federer. But now it's just another warm-up tourney for RG - Federer shows up, but not in spirit; gets ousted by Gulbis and doesn't even seem to care. I believe that this is all at least partially a result of the declining prestige of the MS tourney.

Do you guys still remember Indian Wells? Ljubicic beat Roddick in the final, but I don't think he would have won that match had it been a best-of-fiver. Ljuba is old and not a great mover, but he put everything he had into those two sets, knowing perfectly well that he had to win both. A best-of-five match would have been a classic comeback from Roddick and a likely five-set victory.

But these kinds of opportunities are wasted now. These finals feel short and insignificant. I think that the fans are getting robbed of great tennis. The players don't seem to care and are just saving up the energies for the grand slam. What are the organizers thinking? Every MS event, to provide a metaphor, feels like the minor leagues. A cheap imitation of the real deal.

I fear that the sport is in serious decay right now and something needs to be done. Bring back the best-of-five final; bring back exciting comebacks and the prospect of long and entertaining matches.
Changing the YEC/TMC/WTF final to best of 3(in 2008) was also a mistake
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post #6 of 83 (permalink) Old 05-02-2010, 07:07 PM
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Re: When is the last time..?

The sport in decline? Well, I agree with you to some point, but the main reason is we need better players to replace Federer and Nadal. Five years have passed and we're watching at the same two big players, only older, and both have reasons to focus on slams alone, so what we need is consistent players that can setup a good clash in MS finals. Murray and Djokovic have not so far delivered what was expected from them, Delpo doesn't look to me like one with the physique to be a top player in many tournaments/year, and Denko is what, 29 and got injured? So who would be the protagonist of that super-final?

The 5 set thing is true, though, but not with the calendar as it stands; if they're not going to improve the calendar I would stay with 3 sets.

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post #7 of 83 (permalink) Old 05-02-2010, 07:08 PM
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Re: When is the last time..?

MS should eliminate the byes first, imo.
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post #8 of 83 (permalink) Old 05-02-2010, 07:10 PM
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Re: When is the last time..?

Last year's Monte Carlo final was good.

Are we meant to see a "classic" match in a MS event 3/4 times a year?
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post #9 of 83 (permalink) Old 05-02-2010, 07:10 PM
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Re: When is the last time..?

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Originally Posted by andy neyer View Post
MS should eliminate the byes first, imo.
64 draw is ideal but the byes and the change to a 2 set final is all to appease the top players.

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post #10 of 83 (permalink) Old 05-02-2010, 07:11 PM
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Re: When is the last time..?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CyBorg View Post
... we've all seen a really entertaining MS final? Something truly memorable; something we could term a classic?

I really can't remember a really good one unless I go back a while. Yeah, we've had some decent ones, but nothing truly special.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm kind of losing interest in these events and this all started when the atp decided to eliminate best-of-five finals.

Not only that, but I also suspect (speculate) that players no longer feel the same way either. I may be off on this, but I believe that many events - especially the likes of Rome and Miami - are losing their prestige due to the aforementioned change.

Rome was an enormous event at one point in time and we all remember the great finals like Nadal-Coria and Nadal-Federer. But now it's just another warm-up tourney for RG - Federer shows up, but not in spirit; gets ousted by Gulbis and doesn't even seem to care. I believe that this is all at least partially a result of the declining prestige of the MS tourney.

Do you guys still remember Indian Wells? Ljubicic beat Roddick in the final, but I don't think he would have won that match had it been a best-of-fiver. Ljuba is old and not a great mover, but he put everything he had into those two sets, knowing perfectly well that he had to win both. A best-of-five match would have been a classic comeback from Roddick and a likely five-set victory.

But these kinds of opportunities are wasted now. These finals feel short and insignificant. I think that the fans are getting robbed of great tennis. The players don't seem to care and are just saving up the energies for the grand slam. What are the organizers thinking? Every MS event, to provide a metaphor, feels like the minor leagues. A cheap imitation of the real deal.

I fear that the sport is in serious decay right now and something needs to be done. Bring back the best-of-five final; bring back exciting comebacks and the prospect of long and entertaining matches.
I agree with you. Two other points that might factor in:

- Fed doesn't care about Non-Slam events much. Fed gets a lot of attention, therefore his lack of effort coulors the events as warm-ups for the Slams.

- Nadal dominates the clay events. Domination is boring, there are 3 clay 1000 that lose excitment due to this.

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post #11 of 83 (permalink) Old 05-02-2010, 07:11 PM
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Re: When is the last time..?

A lot of the top players are either injured/bad form/on vacation so that is partly to blame for the crappy MS finals.
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post #12 of 83 (permalink) Old 05-02-2010, 07:13 PM Thread Starter
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Re: When is the last time..?

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Originally Posted by Fedicilous View Post
By entertaining you mean tight or high-leveled?
Not all best-of-five matches are entertaining, but anytime you get to at least four sets there's some intrigue, I think.

The worst thing about the best-of-three is the potential for a very short match. A two set final is short, period. Paying that much money to watching a two-setter is a rip-off. And even if I'm watching it on tv it's still extremely unsatisfying.

But in a best-of-five match, there's greater potential for the tide to swing one way and then the other. How many times do you see a guy win the first two sets and then crumble with fitness issues and surrender the next two or at least one? Happens again and again in best-of-fives.

But in a best-of-three it's a clean sweep - easy victory. Little intrigue.

So, to answer your question, an exciting match can be both a) very tight, or b) it can involve one player dominating a portion of the match, but later surrendering the momentum to the other player - something, again, that happens that one's fitness is tested.

This is my issue with the current format. The matches are not long enough to truly test out how fit these guys are. So when a player goes down a set and a break he doesn't dig in within himself - he simply gives up.

Watch Ferrer today. Fails to get the break back after the rain delay and just surrenders. Wouldn't happen in a best-of-five match. Though, granted, Nadal would still dominate his fair share of finals - best-of-three or best-of-five.

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post #13 of 83 (permalink) Old 05-02-2010, 07:13 PM
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Re: When is the last time..?

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Originally Posted by l_mac View Post
Last year's Monte Carlo final was good.

Are we meant to see a "classic" match in a MS event 3/4 times a year?
True, but it would have been better best of 5, no?

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post #14 of 83 (permalink) Old 05-02-2010, 07:17 PM Thread Starter
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Re: When is the last time..?

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Originally Posted by Priam View Post
A lot of the top players are either injured/bad form/on vacation so that is partly to blame for the crappy MS finals.
They do seem like they're on vacation. There's this odd feeling of relaxation on the tour right now - some guys (Verdasco) are really putting in the effort, but many are just passing the time.

My questions to the organizers are this - "why should I be watching"? "why should I care about the sport, at least until the weeks of Roland Garros"? "maybe I should go and watch hockey instead and then come back for the majors later?"

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post #15 of 83 (permalink) Old 05-02-2010, 07:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: When is the last time..?

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Originally Posted by l_mac View Post
Last year's Monte Carlo final was good.

Are we meant to see a "classic" match in a MS event 3/4 times a year?
I wouldn't mind once or twice. Was last year's Monte Carlo truly a classic?

I don't see anyone talking about it. People are still talking about Rome 2006 and Rome 2005. Miami 2005. Madrid 2005.

'This isn't right. This isn't even wrong'.
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Last edited by CyBorg; 05-02-2010 at 08:25 PM.
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