Poll: 2004-2007 Federer vs 2008-2010 Federer - MensTennisForums.com

View Poll Results: Who is a more effective player? Old man Fed or Prime Fed?
No question, prime Fed was better and much more effective at winning slams 42 72.41%
No doubt, old man Fed will win more grand slam titles 1 1.72%
Federer is not what he used to be, but mentally more experienced and relaxed, therefore better 14 24.14%
It's a stupid question, shotmaking talent is the only factor determining which Fed was better 1 1.72%
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-23-2010, 04:44 AM Thread Starter
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Poll: 2004-2007 Federer vs 2008-2010 Federer

Most people around these parts are of the opinion that Roger Federer is not as good as he used to be.

Do the statistics support this assumption?

The same semi final streak Federer began in 2004 remains going, and he reaches the semi finals of slams about as easily as he used to. 2009 he had some 5 setters, but not really any different to the 5 setter vs Tommy Farce in 2006 AO.

Since winning his first grand scam in 2003 Wimbledon, Federer has failed to reach the finals of a grand slam tournament 5 times. Only one of those losses came during the 2008-2010 period. The remaining 4 times were during his so called prime years 2003-2007.

Some people claim Federer peak was to 2006, and the aging process started in 2007. Others like to say that being a 3 slam year, 2007 was still peak Federer.

In my opinion, the first time I felt Roger looked aged was 2009 AO. He looked a step slower on that fast surface. But in 2009 USO and 2010 AO he seems to be as fast as he used to be. Some argue what he lacks in shot making he has gained in old man experience factor. He showed a lot of that to close out set 3 to Mugray in AO.

Some would say Rogers record outside of slams indicates he sucks more now, which started in 2007 where he began losing to all sorts of clowns outside of GS events.

This is a hotly contested point, but in my opinion, since losing to Shandi Dick Todd before 2007 AO, Roger has been tanking matches outside of grand slams, and more lately, possibly to avoid Rafael Nadal. Whether hes scared of him, or whether he wants to keep the
h2h respectable,I believe this is the case. I am not saying that every time he has lost outside of slams he tanked, or that he planned to do it, but matches like Wawrinka 2009, I just can't accept that he tried very hard or that he bought his A game.

In my opinion you have to look to the slams to get an answer to the question..and the results are about the same in terms of tournaments won. Old man Roger reaches more slam finals, but peak Federer won slightly more slams. Depending on whether you start in 2003 Wimbledon or 2004 AO you can tweak the stats to slightly make Fed look better or worse in comparing peak Fed to Old man Fed.

Okay, Federer is not the shotmaker he used to be. He doesn't quite have the freak level of stamina he used to (still by far and away the best on tour though), and he is prone to losing outside of slams, and even in slam finals slightly more than he used to. But I also think that aging old man Federer has become the most consistant tennis player of all time, and if it wasn't for the Mono Nuclear Osis of 2008, we would be looking at a conescutive GS finals record to rival his semi streak.

But at the end of the day, whos better, peak Fed, or old man Fed?

I'll go with old man Fed

"I did not play my best tennis, no? And..that is what enable him to win..to win this match no? "

- Rafael Nadal, ever so "humble", - press conference after shock 4 set loss to Robeen Soderling @ 2009 French Open 4th round.


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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-23-2010, 04:54 AM
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Re: Poll: 2004-2007 Federer vs 2008-2010 Federer

Difference is peak Fed would give one-dimensional players like Del Mugtro an absolute crucifixion if they met in a US Open final.

Big deal, Haas took a couple of sets. He was in the zone that tournament and played some great tennis, as did Davydenko.

Too many matches even in GSs Fed's groundies have been off, not had the same timing and his winning mentality has got him through, such as Andreev, PMK etc, whilst the Murray final was the best he's played post-peak. He was lucky to beat a pushing Roddick at Wimbledon and to lose to that one dimensional down-the-middle basher in New York summed up his decline.

Federer at his peak would NEVER, ever lose to Del Potro.

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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-23-2010, 05:05 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Poll: 2004-2007 Federer vs 2008-2010 Federer

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
Difference is peak Fed would give one-dimensional players like Del Mugtro an absolute crucifixion if they met in a US Open final.

Federer at his peak would NEVER, ever lose to Del Potro.
Well he lost to Safin in 2005 AO in a similar kind of match, one he was ahead in and probably should have won. Safin at his peak was somewhat of a similar kind of player, albiet much more talented, but I think Del Po at his peak has the mental fortitude that Safin lacked.

Peak Fed won many gs finals in straight sets or 4, old man Fed has needed 5 sets a lot of the time. But old man Fed has some crushing clincal victories, 2008 USO final, 2009 FO final, 2010 AO final. Peak Fed struggled against ageing broken back Agassi in 2005 USO, and struggled before putting Roddick away in 2006 US Open final, Stuttered for a while against Burgerdartis in 2006 AO final etc.

To me in GS matches, in terms of victories, the two versions are similar, and as far as we can tell, old man Federer will have more slams.

A good poll option which I regret I didn't include was;

"The demise of Nadal has more to do with Old man Fed sucess than anything"

I think most would have voted that way.

"I did not play my best tennis, no? And..that is what enable him to win..to win this match no? "

- Rafael Nadal, ever so "humble", - press conference after shock 4 set loss to Robeen Soderling @ 2009 French Open 4th round.


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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-23-2010, 05:07 AM
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Re: Poll: 2004-2007 Federer vs 2008-2010 Federer

2003 do a thread about someone else please.

Federer is class. We don't rate class.
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-23-2010, 10:42 AM
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Re: Poll: 2004-2007 Federer vs 2008-2010 Federer

Peak Fed obviously, just b/c it was so effortless for the most part. He was dropping bagels left and right, and his shotmaking never seemed to miss.

You rarely saw him shank balls, and he often would go <10 UEs per game.

I've never seen anything quite like it to be honest, it reminded me of Wayne Gretzky when he was a kid. There is something decidedly cool about watching a player play perfect all around tennis, without necessarily being the fastest or the strongest.

Particularly the period 2003-2004, where he still didn't quite have his point construction ironed away and was quite creative in his game. It was sort of an unholy mix between baseline agression, icey defense, and serve and volley tactics all wrapped into one, you never really knew what to expect.

I started to lose interest in his game around 2007 (after the AO)when it became somewhat same old same old. Still effective, but it lost a bit of the magic and became a little mechanical. The baseline lost some pep and consistency, the movement wasn't quite as impressive (only in spurts), the serve became a little more dominant and relied upon etc etc. 09 was kind of cool for a bit, b/c he added the dropshot to his arsenal and used it to nab the french but still not the same thing.
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-23-2010, 12:01 PM
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Re: Poll: 2004-2007 Federer vs 2008-2010 Federer

put it this way

2006 Fed would beat 2010 Fed 6-1 6-1 on any surface
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-23-2010, 12:32 PM
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Re: Poll: 2004-2007 Federer vs 2008-2010 Federer

2005-2006 is the absolute peak of Federer, he only lost in matches his opponent was playing out of his mind in these 2 years (his worst defeat was Murray in Cincinatti). I think he declined slowly 2007 and then 2008 even more and add Nadal peaking exactly that year and it makes a disastrous year for Federer. I think he played just as good as he used to in tournaments like USOPEN 2008 and Australian Open 2010.
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-23-2010, 01:35 PM
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Re: Poll: 2004-2007 Federer vs 2008-2010 Federer

The Federer of Wimbledon06-AO07 was a MACHINE that was his absolute prime. He lost like 1 match in that timeframe, thats pretty special.
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-23-2010, 01:44 PM
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Re: Poll: 2004-2007 Federer vs 2008-2010 Federer

in 2004-2007 he was more clearly better than the rest of the tour bar nadal on clay than he was in 2008-2010.

I think that Federer wasn't as good in 2008, but his 2009 and 2010 form is about the same as in 2004-2007 in effectiveness but his contemporaries are better(new young guns) and studied his game longer for weaknesses.
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-23-2010, 03:28 PM
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Re: Poll: 2004-2007 Federer vs 2008-2010 Federer

in 2006 federer won 96 percent of his games, he won 12 titles and lost 4 times ALL YEAR.

this was the greatest year of tennis of the greatest players career, the tennis he played in 06 turned him from a great player into a living legend.

Roger Federer, proud owner of 16 grand slams.


-Andy Murray--Juan Martin Del Potro (1)--Novak Djokovic(1)--Gael Monfils-rafittttttttttto,
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-23-2010, 03:31 PM
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Re: Poll: 2004-2007 Federer vs 2008-2010 Federer

No question, prime Fed was better and much more effective at winning slams.
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-23-2010, 03:55 PM
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Re: Poll: 2004-2007 Federer vs 2008-2010 Federer

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2003 View Post
Well he lost to Safin in 2005 AO in a similar kind of match, one he was ahead in and probably should have won. Safin at his peak was somewhat of a similar kind of player, albiet much more talented, but I think Del Po at his peak has the mental fortitude that Safin lacked.

Peak Fed won many gs finals in straight sets or 4, old man Fed has needed 5 sets a lot of the time. But old man Fed has some crushing clincal victories, 2008 USO final, 2009 FO final, 2010 AO final. Peak Fed struggled against ageing broken back Agassi in 2005 USO, and struggled before putting Roddick away in 2006 US Open final, Stuttered for a while against Burgerdartis in 2006 AO final etc.

To me in GS matches, in terms of victories, the two versions are similar, and as far as we can tell, old man Federer will have more slams.

A good poll option which I regret I didn't include was;

"The demise of Nadal has more to do with Old man Fed sucess than anything"

I think most would have voted that way.
Safin is a much, much, better all-round player than Del Potro. Much, much better.

What was more impressive about Fed's 04-07 dominance is the players competing with him are better than the ones he's competing with now.

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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-23-2010, 05:02 PM
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Re: Poll: 2004-2007 Federer vs 2008-2010 Federer

Quote:
Originally Posted by federersforehand View Post
in 2006 federer won 96 percent of his games, he won 12 titles and lost 4 times ALL YEAR.
lost 5 times, his record was 92-5 ... those 5 losses were down to 2 players.. Nadal & Murray.

in 2005 he went 81-4 and in 3 of the 4 losses he had match point/served for the match and blew it. the only "clean" beating was 4 set loss to Nadal in Roland Garros semi.
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-23-2010, 05:12 PM
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Re: Poll: 2004-2007 Federer vs 2008-2010 Federer

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
Safin is a much, much, better all-round player than Del Potro. Much, much better.

What was more impressive about Fed's 04-07 dominance is the players competing with him are better than the ones he's competing with now.
Last week's result certainly helps back up your theory, although I don't think it's a coincidence that 2006, Federer's most dominant year by far, was the one time when there wasn't a serious challenger for Slams below him and Nadal. I absolutely agree with the general consensus, though, that Federer's game was at its peak during this time; he was fast, sharp from the baseline, made the right tactical decisions, and was never outrallied by the likes of Benneteau (who is a good baseliner, it's just that Federer had the measure of those decent retrievers back then).

The Wit and Wisdom of the Tennis Journalist, Indian Wells 2004

ROGER FEDERER: Yeah, I remember this one time when I went on a vacation on the Maldives. That was in the year 2001, I think. I went to this spa. I went to walk around with my girlfriend. I walk in, and we want to book a spa. This guy goes, "AHH, I remember you. You beat Sampras. I saw you on TV." That was like, really, how can you remember me? This guy has probably never been off his island and still knows me. I was a little bit shocked. Then I went to play tennis with him because he was actually the tennis teacher. It was nice.

Q. Were you naked at the time in the spa?

ROGER FEDERER: No. It was at the front desk. I didn't walk in naked.
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-23-2010, 05:15 PM
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Re: Poll: 2004-2007 Federer vs 2008-2010 Federer

Well I suppose his rivals then (Roddick, Safin, Hewitt) were at their best in 04-05 rather than 06-07, but Nadal emerged in 05 and adds to this tough opposition.

Murray, Djokovic, Del Potro aren't quite in the same league as these guys IMO.

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