Novel perspective on Nadal-Federer head-to-head - MensTennisForums.com
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-16-2009, 08:45 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 28
                     
Novel perspective on Nadal-Federer head-to-head

One common objection to considering Federer as the (by now infamous) GOAT is that he has a loosing record against his major competitor.

So I did exercise my right to waste my time on vane tasks and looked at the following stat.

Starting from and including 2005 (the year in which Nadal forcefully won his first RG, thus establishing himself as contender in any GS) I looked at all the grand slams in which they BOTH played. Nadal defeated Federer in every single GS he won. Federer won GS's without playing against Nadal.

The result is:
2005: N1, F1
2006: N1, F2
2007: N1, F3
2008: N2, F1
2009: N1, F1

Total: Nadal 6 - Federer 9 (there are 4 slams in which Nadal didn't play).

The idea is to consider any GS in which they both enter as a "direct match" (Golf style). In this sense this stat (7-9) tells you their "head-to-head" on the big stage.

As any other stat, this one too is probably meaningless to the non tennis-fetichist.
snoo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-16-2009, 09:06 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Nirvana
Posts: 7,266
                     
Re: Novel perspective on Nadal-Federer head-to-head

Nice try but that's a load of

There an only be One Nadal
Quote:
Nadal, Roddick, Tsonga, Del Potro & Safin
Quote:
Pele was the black Rooney
Quote:
Originally Posted by George W Bush
"We must always remember that all human beings begin life as a feces. A Feces is a living being in the eyes of God, who has endowed that feces with all of the rights and God-given blessings of any other human being."
Black Adam is offline  
post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-16-2009, 09:22 PM
Registered User
 
Ariadne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 30
Posts: 562
                     
Re: Novel perspective on Nadal-Federer head-to-head

An interesting analysis. It certainly lends credence to the fact that their head-head in slams is skewed in favor of Nadal because of his lack of consistency in getting through to face Federer in non-French slams.
Ariadne is offline  
post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-16-2009, 09:28 PM
Registered User
 
Commander Data's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: XR-17
Posts: 10,086
                     
Re: Novel perspective on Nadal-Federer head-to-head

As long as Nadal wins some more RG, things look pretty good for the Fed GOAT argument. Fed is the overall GOAT and Nanal the clay-GOAT. it is therefore okay to lose against Nadal on clay. For this to work Fed needs to keep his off-clay head-to-head positive.

"You cannot be a number one in the world and be a good loser"

- Magnus Carlsen
Commander Data is offline  
post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-16-2009, 09:28 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,251
                     
Re: Novel perspective on Nadal-Federer head-to-head

Keep hearing about the fact that fed has made the last 5 slam finals so I decided to analyse the last 5 slams.

Finals: Fed 5, Nadal 3

Wins: Fed 2, Nadal 3

Basically Fed will win until he faces Nadal, and if Nadal reaches final against fed, Nadal will win. simple formula.
NadalSharapova is offline  
post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-16-2009, 09:31 PM
Ace Loveforty
 
scarecrows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Tirana, ALBANIA
Posts: 82,173
                     
Re: Novel perspective on Nadal-Federer head-to-head

Quote:
Originally Posted by NadalSharapova View Post
Keep hearing about the fact that fed has made the last 5 slam finals so I decided to analyse the last 5 slams.

Finals: Fed 5, Nadal 3

Wins: Fed 2, Nadal 3

Basically Fed will win until he faces Nadal, and if Nadal reaches final against fed, Nadal will win. simple formula.
and also

Fed loses only to nadal, Nadal can lose to any random clown

http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...&postcount=378

Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerRafaFan View Post
That will be the last victory of Rafa for quite some time.. With his joke mentality and pathetic game, I hope the disgusting player loses every single match next season. He's disgraceful. He should just retire. He's a joke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by l_mac View Post
(10) Corey Feldman vs. (12) scarecrows
scarecrows is offline  
post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-16-2009, 09:34 PM
Registered User
 
MrChopin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Age: 32
Posts: 2,356
                     
Re: Novel perspective on Nadal-Federer head-to-head

That's an interesting point, but 14-6 essentially says the same thing.

What your point does highlight, however, is the flaw in the "Weak era" arguments. Nadal has been winning slams against the same competition since '05 and is still noticeably behind. Djokovic came in '08, but he was already top 3/4 by Wimbledon '07, since which Fed has won 5/10 to Djokovic's 1.

Ultimately though, you'll never convince Rafatards of the relative insignificance of the H2H, at least not while Rafa is winning that one stat while Fed holds most major stats...


Quote:
Originally Posted by viruzzz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Start da Game View Post
Nadal will be fine by australian open......
You're like a living unforced error.
MrChopin is offline  
post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-16-2009, 09:35 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,251
                     
Re: Novel perspective on Nadal-Federer head-to-head

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex Lion Tamer View Post
and also

Fed loses only to nadal, Nadal can lose to any random clown
Shows Fed's success depends only on Nadal. Fed needs to pray that Nadal is out before he faces him.

Bottom line: Federer more consistent but Nadal more brilliant. (2/5 wins, 3/3 wins)
NadalSharapova is offline  
post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-16-2009, 09:40 PM
Registered User
 
MrChopin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Age: 32
Posts: 2,356
                     
Re: Novel perspective on Nadal-Federer head-to-head

Quote:
Originally Posted by NadalSharapova View Post
Shows Fed's success depends only on Nadal. Fed needs to pray that Nadal is out before he faces him.

Bottom line: Federer more consistent but Nadal more brilliant. (2/5 wins, 3/3 wins)
Or rather that Fed can consistently beat everyone at the slams but Rafa, whereas Rafa loses to more players than just Fed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by viruzzz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Start da Game View Post
Nadal will be fine by australian open......
You're like a living unforced error.
MrChopin is offline  
post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-16-2009, 09:42 PM
Ace Loveforty
 
scarecrows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Tirana, ALBANIA
Posts: 82,173
                     
Re: Novel perspective on Nadal-Federer head-to-head

Quote:
Originally Posted by NadalSharapova View Post
Shows Fed's success depends only on Nadal. Fed needs to pray that Nadal is out before he faces him.

Bottom line: Federer more consistent but Nadal more brilliant. (2/5 wins, 3/3 wins)
brilliant in losing to Soderling, Ferrer, Gonzalez and Tsonga?

it just shows that Fed hates playing Nadal, which everyone with at least 2 brain cells, that you dont have, has understood

http://www.menstennisforums.com/show...&postcount=378

Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerRafaFan View Post
That will be the last victory of Rafa for quite some time.. With his joke mentality and pathetic game, I hope the disgusting player loses every single match next season. He's disgraceful. He should just retire. He's a joke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by l_mac View Post
(10) Corey Feldman vs. (12) scarecrows
scarecrows is offline  
post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-16-2009, 09:54 PM
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
Har-Tru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Germany
Age: 30
Posts: 20,524
                     
Re: Novel perspective on Nadal-Federer head-to-head

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Data View Post
As long as Nadal wins some more RG, things look pretty good for the Fed GOAT argument. Fed is the overall GOAT and Nanal the clay-GOAT. it is therefore okay to lose against Nadal on clay. For this to work Fed needs to keep his off-clay head-to-head positive.
Federer isn't the GOAT in my view, but good point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
Har-Tru is offline  
post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-16-2009, 09:56 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,251
                     
Re: Novel perspective on Nadal-Federer head-to-head

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex Lion Tamer View Post
brilliant in losing to Soderling, Ferrer, Gonzalez and Tsonga?

it just shows that Fed hates playing Nadal, which everyone with at least 2 brain cells, that you dont have, has understood
Feds problem he hates playing Nadal. Nadal doesn't hate playing anyone, he owns fed, murray and djokovic
NadalSharapova is offline  
post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-16-2009, 09:57 PM
Banned!
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,385
                     
Re: Novel perspective on Nadal-Federer head-to-head

Nadal sucks, end of discussion.
rubbERR is offline  
post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-16-2009, 10:22 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,914
                     
Re: Novel perspective on Nadal-Federer head-to-head

Quote:
Originally Posted by rubbERR View Post
Nadal sucks, end of discussion.
+1
Myrre is offline  
post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 06-16-2009, 10:47 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Mallorca (Spain)
Posts: 2,075
                     
Re: Novel perspective on Nadal-Federer head-to-head

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrChopin View Post
Or rather that Fed can consistently beat everyone at the slams but Rafa, whereas Rafa loses to more players than just Fed.
That is nothing but expected, since Fed is the GOAT and Rafa the guy who does his best to beat the GOAT (and the only one up to now to manage it consistently on big matches), but never pretending to be one himself. Knowing Rafa, the biggest menace to his career, second only to his knees, is that someday Fed will retire; Rafa's biggest turn-up seems to be proving he's good enough to deny some GS from the GOAT himself. Has anybody, ever, heard Rafa say he considers himself better than Federer (nr1 NOT being synonymous with better player)? If he did so, it wouldnt only be untrue, it could prove to be a huge mistake for his own career.
peribsen is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the MensTennisForums.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome