30+yrs club:: LAVER the GOATiest [Fed & Rafa<> longevity?] - MensTennisForums.com

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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 10:52 AM Thread Starter
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30+yrs club:: LAVER the GOATiest [Fed & Rafa<> longevity?]

Another gauge of LAVER`s greatness [GOATness] was his performance beyond the age of 30yrs!!!


Over 30 Singles Titles - Open Era
Player Titles

#BOLDED players also won slams/majors beyond 30yrs.

Rod Laver 53 [includes All-4 `The Slam` in 69].
Ken Rosewall 30
Arthur Ashe 20
Andre Agassi 15
Jimmy Connors 14

Ivan Lendl 8
Andres Gimeno 6
Ilie Nastase 6
Stan Smith 6
Bob Hewitt 5
Roger Taylor 5
Marty Riessen 5
Mark Cox 5
Tom Okker 5
Bob Lutz 5
John McEnroe 5
Magnus Gustafsson 5
Roy Emerson 4
John Newcombe 4

Jose Higueras 4
Andres Gomez 4
Younes El Aynaoui 4
...
...
Pete Sampras 1 [only win beyond 30 was @ USO 02]

>>>
Will the likes of FED or RAFA be able to join this illustrius group


>>>
More interesting stats on those players who were able to win slams over 30yrs..
From these we can see Rosewall`s greatness~ as he holds 4/5 age records for oldest to win a slam!
Though Laver appears the most times [5] in the Top-20, and Agassi also appears [5] times~ if we go to the Top-30.

Oldest Winners 1968-2007
Rank Player Year Tournament Age


1 Ken Rosewall 1972 Australian 37y 2m 1d
2 Ken Rosewall 1971 Australian 36y 2m 12d
3 Ken Rosewall 1970 US Open 35y 10m 11d

4 Andres Gimeno 1972 Roland Garros 34y 10m 1d
5 Ken Rosewall 1968 Roland Garros 33y 7m 7d
6 Andre Agassi 2003 Australian 32y 8m 28d
7 Arthur Ashe 1975 Wimbledon 31y 11m 25d
8 Rod Laver 1969 US Open 31y 1m 0d
9 Pete Sampras 2002 US Open 31y 0m 27d
10 Jimmy Connors 1983 US Open 31y 0m 9d
11 Rod Laver 1969 Wimbledon 30y 10m 26d
12 Rod Laver 1969 Roland Garros 30y 9m 30d

13 Andre Agassi 2001 Australian 30y 8m 30d
14 John Newcombe 1975 Australian 30y 7m 9d
15 Rod Laver 1969 Australian 30y 5m 18d
16 Andres Gomez 1990 Roland Garros 30y 3m 14d
17 Jimmy Connors 1982 US Open 30y 0m 10d
18 Petr Korda 1998 Australian 30y 0m 9d
19 Rod Laver 1968 Wimbledon 29y 10m 27d
20 Ivan Lendl 1990 Australian 29y 10m 21d
21 Jimmy Connors 1982 Wimbledon 29y 10m 2d
22 Goran Ivanisevic 2001 Wimbledon 29y 9m 26d
23 Andre Agassi 2000 Australian 29y 9m 1d
24 Andre Agassi 1999 US Open 29y 4m 14d
25 John Newcombe 1973 US Open 29y 3m 17d
26 Andre Agassi 1999 Roland Garros 29y 1m 8d
27 Pete Sampras 2000 Wimbledon 28y 10m 27d
28 Ivan Lendl 1989 Australian 28y 10m 22d
29 John Newcombe 1973 Australian 28y 7m 9d
30 Boris Becker 1996 Australian 28y 2m 6d


*Stats provided by www.tennis28.com

Last edited by CmonAussie; 04-21-2009 at 03:04 AM.
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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 10:57 AM
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Re: Most titles won by players over 30yrs:: LAVER is the GOATiest<>!

tennis in the 1950's was played as a recreational sport, it wasnt professional like now! the competition was like 2 players, there were no hard courts so u could play until 70 yrs old especially since it was so laid back and not pro tennis! it was hit and giggle stuff really! laver will struggle against guys like nadal, nadal's passing shots would kill lavers game! sorry but each new era is greater than the previous one, more competition, etc!!!
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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 10:59 AM
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Re: Most titles won by players over 30yrs:: LAVER is the GOATiest<>!

hard to say yes
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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 11:05 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Most titles won by players over 30yrs:: LAVER is the GOATiest<>!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingfederer View Post
tennis in the 1950's was played as a recreational sport, it wasnt professional like now! the competition was like 2 players, there were no hard courts so u could play until 70 yrs old especially since it was so laid back and not pro tennis! it was hit and giggle stuff really! laver will struggle against guys like nadal, nadal's passing shots would kill lavers game! sorry but each new era is greater than the previous one, more competition, etc!!!
OK~ you`re entitled to your opinion
However i think you`re underestimating how much of a tennis genius LAVER was
Laver also had the biggest `left arm forearm` ever seen on a tennis court [yes- bigger than Rafa`s], and that was in the era before they knew about special protein diets or the best workout techniques! ...If Laver had the opportunity to train as Rafa has & use the same equipment i think you`d find that Rod would be landing more than his fair share of thundering forehands

BTW, thanks a lot of the www.tennis28.com link, that was great
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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 11:57 AM
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Re: Most titles won by players over 30yrs:: LAVER is the GOATiest<>!

Magnus Gustafsson

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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 04:33 PM
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Re: Most titles won by players over 30yrs:: LAVER is the GOATiest<>!

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Originally Posted by kingfederer View Post
tennis in the 1950's was played as a recreational sport, it wasnt professional like now! the competition was like 2 players, there were no hard courts so u could play until 70 yrs old especially since it was so laid back and not pro tennis! it was hit and giggle stuff really! laver will struggle against guys like nadal, nadal's passing shots would kill lavers game! sorry but each new era is greater than the previous one, more competition, etc!!!
You have no idea what you're talking about. Professional tennis was no more recreational in the 1950s than professional baseball.

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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 04:44 PM
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Re: Most titles by players over 30yrs:: LAVER the GOATiest<>!

I think Agassi's longevity is the most impressive of anyone.

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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 11:15 PM
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Re: Most titles by players over 30yrs:: LAVER the GOATiest<>!

I think federer has an excellent chance of joining that elusive group,because the only positive aspect of his decline / forced slump is that he is playing less matches than previously by his standards.So whenever he (if ever)decides to get serious with tennis again,physically he body should hold up under the pressure.His body is being allowed to recoperate so to speak.His mentality is another ball-game altogether but physically he could do it ala agassi.
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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-21-2009, 01:01 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Most titles by players over 30yrs:: LAVER the GOATiest<>!

Quote:
Originally Posted by luie View Post
I think federer has an excellent chance of joining that elusive group,because the only positive aspect of his decline / forced slump is that he is playing less matches than previously by his standards.So whenever he (if ever)decides to get serious with tennis again,physically he body should hold up under the pressure.His body is being allowed to recoperate so to speak.His mentality is another ball-game altogether but physically he could do it ala agassi.

I agree with you, physically FED should be able to do something similar to what Agassi managed~ assuming he has the same motivation/heart that Andre showed
Psychologically its a totally different story~ i`m thinking FED might need to swallow his pride & talk to someone about his mental frailty
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-21-2009, 01:36 AM
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Re: Most titles by players over 30yrs:: LAVER the GOATiest<>!

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Originally Posted by Groove Dude View Post
I think Agassi's longevity is the most impressive of anyone.
i tend to agree, due to the fact that agassi's miles on the clock were done largely on hardcourt... also aided in part by a couple of well spaced lull's in his career - though, again, the return from these lulls in the fashion he did is also something uncommon... connors gets a mention as the clay n grass on the western side of the pond dried up in the 80's aswell, yet managed to stick around... no one f***s with kenny though... warhorse...

Quote:
Originally Posted by luie View Post
I think federer has an excellent chance of joining that elusive group,because the only positive aspect of his decline / forced slump is that he is playing less matches than previously by his standards.So whenever he (if ever)decides to get serious with tennis again,physically he body should hold up under the pressure.His body is being allowed to recoperate so to speak.His mentality is another ball-game altogether but physically he could do it ala agassi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CmonAussie View Post

I agree with you, physically FED should be able to do something similar to what Agassi managed~ assuming he has the same motivation/heart that Andre showed
Psychologically its a totally different story~ i`m thinking FED might need to swallow his pride & talk to someone about his mental frailty
yep... federer's new problems are a complete breed apart from the likes of hewitt, safin, roddick and the rivals he dismissed early on... maybe its just the inital shock of seemingly ageing overnight, but, if he is half the man i began to be believe he was, then he'll have no trouble in readjusting his expectations and staying motivated for these years ahead... any success up ahead could only add to his legacy and when you look at the figures above, its not like he needs a whole bunch of titles to have the 'longevity' tag labelled upon him... there is every chance of a post 30's haul of titles if he gets his head right for sure...

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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-21-2009, 02:26 AM
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Re: Most titles by players over 30yrs:: LAVER the GOATiest<>!

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Originally Posted by CmonAussie View Post

I agree with you, physically FED should be able to do something similar to what Agassi managed~ assuming he has the same motivation/heart that Andre showed
Psychologically its a totally different story~ i`m thinking FED might need to swallow his pride & talk to someone about his mental frailty
Agassi in this respect is very impressive making Grand slam finals & winning slams through many generations.However for me it was becker winning the AO 96 because I was a huge becker fan & was disappointed when sampras beat him in wimby 95 when he valiantly came back against agassi in the SF . by then becker was a greybeard.
As for federer I don't think he has to swallow his pride, because nothing is wrong with his game or mentality on the whole ,needs some work but not fragile as some claim. The problem is that the present generation studied his game for years & trained to exploit every weakness he has & slowly began eroding his confidence in his game & if his game cannot be exploited they exploited his patience & habits like nadal at MC 08 when fed was on a roll nadal takes a well timed time-out to break his rhythym ,nadal took a time-out to rub his leg for 10 seconds the result fed collasped. there are many examples of nadal doing this,fakervic as well,murray by default sometimes but the end result is fed loses or extended.The problem however is not nadal's,murray's or fakervic its federer because he lost his concentration & at this level you can't afford that lapse in concentration. They slow the game down to suit them. This is not to ridicule nadal or fakervic because they are doing what must be done to win but the point is they know exactly federer's likes & dislikes. In maimi one commentator was saying that during feds prime, when he played ,the ball was always in "your hands" because he rushed through his service games & before you knew it you were 5-2 down & not much time has elasped.
Fed needs to readjust his game to suit the new era of warfare,change his game a bit come with something new from time to time & have more patience . Fed needs to realise that the competition has not gotten better but is more equiped to beat him Roger federer.
Murray beats federer but loses to nalbandian,davydenko,verdasco.Feds old rivals.In short Murray beats fed but not his rivals. Fakervic can't even beat roddick
Nadal beat fed but loses to davydenko,nalbandian had him on the run before he choked,in maimi.
Match-up issues explain certain aspects but not all. In short nothing is wrong with federer (apart from the huge belly & loss of a half-a-step)but these can be worked on the problem imo is naturally after so long his game has been figured out & the cream of the crop can exploit it.
BUT sure fed can come back.

Last edited by luie; 04-21-2009 at 02:32 AM.
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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-21-2009, 02:59 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Most titles by players over 30yrs:: LAVER the GOATiest<>!

Quote:
Originally Posted by luie View Post
Agassi in this respect is very impressive making Grand slam finals & winning slams through many generations.However for me it was becker winning the AO 96 because I was a huge becker fan & was disappointed when sampras beat him in wimby 95 when he valiantly came back against agassi in the SF . by then becker was a greybeard.
As for federer I don't think he has to swallow his pride, because nothing is wrong with his game or mentality on the whole ,needs some work but not fragile as some claim. The problem is that the present generation studied his game for years & trained to exploit every weakness he has & slowly began eroding his confidence in his game & if his game cannot be exploited they exploited his patience & habits like nadal at MC 08 when fed was on a roll nadal takes a well timed time-out to break his rhythym ,nadal took a time-out to rub his leg for 10 seconds the result fed collasped. there are many examples of nadal doing this,fakervic as well,murray by default sometimes but the end result is fed loses or extended.The problem however is not nadal's,murray's or fakervic its federer because he lost his concentration & at this level you can't afford that lapse in concentration. They slow the game down to suit them. This is not to ridicule nadal or fakervic because they are doing what must be done to win but the point is they know exactly federer's likes & dislikes. In maimi one commentator was saying that during feds prime, when he played ,the ball was always in "your hands" because he rushed through his service games & before you knew it you were 5-2 down & not much time has elasped.
Fed needs to readjust his game to suit the new era of warfare,change his game a bit come with something new from time to time & have more patience . Fed needs to realise that the competition has not gotten better but is more equiped to beat him Roger federer.
Murray beats federer but loses to nalbandian,davydenko,verdasco.Feds old rivals.In short Murray beats fed but not his rivals. Fakervic can't even beat roddick
Nadal beat fed but loses to davydenko,nalbandian had him on the run before he choked,in maimi.
Match-up issues explain certain aspects but not all. In short nothing is wrong with federer (apart from the huge belly & loss of a half-a-step)but these can be worked on the problem imo is naturally after so long his game has been figured out & the cream of the crop can exploit it.
BUT sure fed can come back.

Great post
Even though i don`t totally agree with you i do think you`ve made some excellent observations/points~ esp regarding FED losing his rythm, as Rafa, Murray & Djoko realised that slowing down play is the way to get Roger out of his comfort zone
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Re: 30+yrs club:: LAVER the GOATiest [Fed & Rafa<> longevity?]

He won 53 titles... AFTER turning 30?

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Re: Most titles by players over 30yrs:: LAVER the GOATiest<>!

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Originally Posted by Groove Dude View Post
I think Agassi's longevity is the most impressive of anyone.
Agassi's career was always fascinating to me. He joined Sampras at the top of the game in '95, dropped off the face of the earth some time later, then came back to finish strongly. Was it '97 that he was playing challengers to try to get his game back? He really hit his stride in later years...
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Re: Most titles by players over 30yrs:: LAVER the GOATiest<>!

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Agassi's career was always fascinating to me. He joined Sampras at the top of the game in '95, dropped off the face of the earth some time later, then came back to finish strongly. Was it '97 that he was playing challengers to try to get his game back? He really hit his stride in later years...

Yeah Agassi is one of the most surprising sportsmen in history
***
The irony is that he began his career as a brash `image is everything`, lazy, choker, celebrity wannabe...yet once he realised how much he loved tennis (after the Brooke Shields breakup) he became one of the most disciplined & intriguing players ever, and outlived all his rivals (including Sampras)
There will never be such a fascinating enigma/contradiction as Agassi!!

Still if Fed or Rafa can continue to win big titles in their 30s they`ll truly go down as unforgetable legends (a la Laver & Agassi)
I really hope both of them can surprise us by playing high level tennis well beyond the theoretical used by date in tennis (30 being the magic number by which time most players are retired or a shadow of their former selves)..
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