Novak Djokovic - the most complete player on tour? - MensTennisForums.com
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post #1 of 108 (permalink) Old 12-13-2008, 07:07 PM Thread Starter
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Novak Djokovic - the most complete player on tour?

Relax, it's not a troll attempt.
Look at the official ATPtennis.com statistic of 2008 - http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/matchfacts/
Let's analyse current top-4 players. We have two categories here: "service games" and "ROS games". We have 6 criterias to determind the best on service and 4 of them to choose the best on return. After getting an arithmetic average with the places players got we have the next:
Nadal:
Serve - #39 + #2 + #27 + #1 + #4 + #5 = #13
ROS - #1 + #1 + #3 + #1 = #1
avrg = #7, diff = 12
Federer:
Serve - #3 + #11 + #5 + #2 + #3 + #1 = #4
ROS - #7 + #9 + #21 + #10 = #12
avrg = #8, diff = 8
Djokovic:
Serve - #10 + #10 + #18 + #3 + #6 + #6 = #9
ROS - #8 + #10 + #1 + #4 = #6
avrg = #7, diff = 3
Murray:
Serve - #12 + #38 + #12 + #31 + #22 + #18 = #22
ROS - #3 + #3 + #18 + #6 = #7
avrg = #10, diff = 15

I know this statistic can not be representable, but I guess it contains some truth inside. Do you think Djokovic is the most complete player on tour right now? I mean Federer can't be the complete player coz he plays old-fashioned one-handed BH; Nadal - you can't name him a total complete player even you are a fan of him; Murray - the kid has a potential, but having a crap forehand he can not be named as a complete.
So, is Djoko an implementation of the perfect player? Perfect means no genius, it means complete.

Thoughts, disscusions.
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post #2 of 108 (permalink) Old 12-13-2008, 07:08 PM
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Re: Novak Djokovic - the most complete player on tour?

I anticipate l_mac's response.
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post #3 of 108 (permalink) Old 12-13-2008, 07:11 PM
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Re: Novak Djokovic - the most complete player on tour?

novak is almost complete.

the last phase of his training will be volleying with king oscar.

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post #4 of 108 (permalink) Old 12-13-2008, 07:33 PM
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Re: Novak Djokovic - the most complete player on tour?

Yes, there is no point denying it.
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post #5 of 108 (permalink) Old 12-13-2008, 08:41 PM
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Re: Novak Djokovic - the most complete player on tour?

most complete c**t, yeah
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post #6 of 108 (permalink) Old 12-13-2008, 08:44 PM
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Re: Novak Djokovic - the most complete player on tour?

I think taking simple average is not a good method. A weighting scheme has to be developed for each of the six categories in each case. This is the only problem I have with this analysis. I'm sure that even with a new weighting scheme, Novak will be the most complete player.

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post #7 of 108 (permalink) Old 12-13-2008, 08:52 PM
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Re: Novak Djokovic - the most complete player on tour?

Yeah, he's the most complete player in the ATP.

Except for his game.

And character.

And sportsmanship.
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post #8 of 108 (permalink) Old 12-13-2008, 08:59 PM
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Re: Novak Djokovic - the most complete player on tour?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey Feldman View Post
most complete c**t, yeah
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennMirnyi View Post
Yeah, he's the most complete player in the ATP.

Except for his game.

And character.

And sportsmanship.
x2
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post #9 of 108 (permalink) Old 12-13-2008, 09:07 PM
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Re: Novak Djokovic - the most complete player on tour?

hell no!

If one of Trump's racist domestic terrorist THUGS tries to stop you from voting, STAY in line, take their picture, call the police and call 1-866-OUR-VOTE. Spanish: 866-Ve-Y-Vota. Asian Languages: 866-API-Vote. Lawyers will be ready.
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post #10 of 108 (permalink) Old 12-13-2008, 09:20 PM
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Re: Novak Djokovic - the most complete player on tour?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennMirnyi View Post
Yeah, he's the most complete player in the ATP.

Except for his game.

And character.

And sportsmanship.
.I actually like his game, but he has A LOT to improve yet. So, no, it´s not.
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post #11 of 108 (permalink) Old 12-13-2008, 10:17 PM
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Re: Novak Djokovic - the most complete player on tour?

He's the most complete something, but player is the wrong word. Fame-ho, d-bag, cheater all fit better...

He can play, but the most complete player? Yeah right...

Last edited by BigJohn; 12-13-2008 at 10:31 PM.
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post #12 of 108 (permalink) Old 12-13-2008, 10:27 PM
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Re: Novak Djokovic - the most complete player on tour?

Not even close.
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post #13 of 108 (permalink) Old 12-13-2008, 11:08 PM
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Re: Novak Djokovic - the most complete player on tour?

An analysis based on ranks fails to take into account the amount of variability within each category.

A simple way to deal with this problem is to subtract each player's score from the group mean and divide this difference by the group standard deviations, i.e. compute a Z score.

This will tell you by how many standard deviations a player's score in a given category deviates from the group mean. I did this for the percentages in each category, and for the ace count I looked at aces/match. I did not take into account number of matches for any category other than Aces.

For service games, the sum of Z-scores across the 6 categories for the top 4 are as follows (higher z-score = better performance):

Nadal: 5.62
Federer: 7.31
Djkovic: 4.76
Murray: -1.43


For return of serve, the sum of Z-scores across the 4 categories for the top 4 are as follows:

Nadal: 6.63
Federer: 2.73
Djokovic: 5.07
Murray: 4.18

For service games, Federer performed the best, followed by Nadal, Djokovic and Murray.

For return of serve, Nadal was the best, followed by Djokovic, Murray and Federer.

If you add the Z-scores from Service games and Return of serve, performance is ranked with Nadal as number 1, followed by Federer, Djokovic, and Murray, which surprisingly, is exactly how these players are ranked.
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post #14 of 108 (permalink) Old 12-13-2008, 11:15 PM
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Re: Novak Djokovic - the most complete player on tour?

One also has to take into account mentality in terms of it being an important factor on the "completeness" of a player.

Mentally Djokovic is still not up there.

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post #15 of 108 (permalink) Old 12-14-2008, 12:10 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Novak Djokovic - the most complete player on tour?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tennizen View Post
I think taking simple average is not a good method. A weighting scheme has to be developed for each of the six categories in each case. This is the only problem I have with this analysis. I'm sure that even with a new weighting scheme, Novak will be the most complete player.
I wasn't going to go deeper than simple average in numbers. It seems enough to get the picture in general. Sure, you can add different wages to each the categorie, but it will become subjective. Well, these numbers don't tell something for sure, but you can see the tendency. And you're already see it properly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingLamb View Post
An analysis based on ranks fails to take into account the amount of variability within each category.

A simple way to deal with this problem is to subtract each player's score from the group mean and divide this difference by the group standard deviations, i.e. compute a Z score.

This will tell you by how many standard deviations a player's score in a given category deviates from the group mean. I did this for the percentages in each category, and for the ace count I looked at aces/match. I did not take into account number of matches for any category other than Aces.

For service games, the sum of Z-scores across the 6 categories for the top 4 are as follows (higher z-score = better performance):

Nadal: 5.62
Federer: 7.31
Djkovic: 4.76
Murray: -1.43


For return of serve, the sum of Z-scores across the 4 categories for the top 4 are as follows:

Nadal: 6.63
Federer: 2.73
Djokovic: 5.07
Murray: 4.18

For service games, Federer performed the best, followed by Nadal, Djokovic and Murray.

For return of serve, Nadal was the best, followed by Djokovic, Murray and Federer.

If you add the Z-scores from Service games and Return of serve, performance is ranked with Nadal as number 1, followed by Federer, Djokovic, and Murray, which surprisingly, is exactly how these players are ranked.
It's pretty interesting, but I'm not going to analyze the stats seriously coz they can't include very very many things to be fairly representable. I mean there is no column 'Talent: 0-100%', 'GS tourn-s determination percentage', 'everything-killing-topspin-FH quality' etc.
Just a quick look on stats proves that Djokovic has no visible weakness, simultaneously being on top means he is the most complete relative the others tops. Nothing more, nothing less. I actually find him plaing an academy tennis(tennis how it must to be played in theory), along with Federer and Nadal playing different.. umm.. crazy, not normal, not ordinary tennis.
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