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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-26-2008, 08:20 PM Thread Starter
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Question about doping

Sorry if this has been answered before

I know that if a player is found guilty of taking illegal substances the ATP/ITF removes the points and earnings. But if that player has won a tournament during the time he has been taking those substances, what happens with the trophy? Is also removed? Is given to the finalist? Or the tournament is left without a champion?
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-26-2008, 08:27 PM
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Re: Question about doping

Good question!
The tournament winners - sorry: both finalists I meant to say - always both get tested on illegal substances (ask Mariano Puerta, for instance - ), so it would be discovered right after the finals. It would sound reasonable to me in such a case - i.e., the winner appears to be doped - to grant the runner-up the trophy, points, etc., but I actually don't know what's the 'official' stance of the PTB in such cases, as one should conclude that that doper indeed got to that final being doped, i.e., having had an illegal advantage against ALL his previous opponents in that tournament as well!

Has this ever happened, btw?

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Last edited by Sunset of Age; 11-26-2008 at 08:39 PM. Reason: stupidity
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-26-2008, 11:42 PM
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Re: Question about doping

Didn't Rios lose the AO to Korda who was doped??? I am not crtain about if Korda was doped during the AO but he was punished later on in the season.

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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-26-2008, 11:47 PM
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Re: Question about doping

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Originally Posted by Black Adam View Post
Didn't Rios lose the AO to Korda who was doped??? I am not crtain about if Korda was doped during the AO but he was punished later on in the season.
I don't know if Korda was doped at the AO but he was caught around after Wimbledon that year I think.

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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-27-2008, 12:40 AM
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Re: Question about doping

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Originally Posted by Kolya View Post
I don't know if Korda was doped at the AO but he was caught around after Wimbledon that year I think.
I think the Korda positive was at least one and a half years after his AO win.


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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-27-2008, 12:56 AM
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Re: Question about doping

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Originally Posted by Stupid Dream View Post
Good question!
The tournament winners - sorry: both finalists I meant to say - always both get tested on illegal substances (ask Mariano Puerta, for instance - ), so it would be discovered right after the finals. It would sound reasonable to me in such a case - i.e., the winner appears to be doped - to grant the runner-up the trophy, points, etc., but I actually don't know what's the 'official' stance of the PTB in such cases, as one should conclude that that doper indeed got to that final being doped, i.e., having had an illegal advantage against ALL his previous opponents in that tournament as well!

Has this ever happened, btw?
I think Puerta had to pay back all prize money he earned that year starting from the French Open. Note that Puerta played from the time of the positive test in the French Open all the way to the YEC in November before he was punished so "it is discovered right after the final" isn't quite the way it works. I am skeptical about doping positives like Puerta and Canas by the way because there is no clear evidence that they willfully took doping or that the substances as detected could have a material affect on their performance, but let's not get into that.

After the past experiences, I suspect there is currently a much higher level of regulation and consideration within the ATP regarding possible doping positives. It is possible or even likely that there have been several doping test positives for top players since 2006 that have not been publicly announced because the ATP had doubts about whether those positives represented willfull doping or whether the test results were 100% conclusive. It is my opinion that the doping cases of Canas and Puerta were more a reflection of the political climate within sports bodies at the time rather than any increased suspectibility of Argentine players to use doping.


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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-27-2008, 12:59 AM
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Re: Question about doping

Quote:
Originally Posted by TankingTheSet View Post
I think Puerta had to pay back all prize money he earned that year starting from the French Open. Note that Puerta played from the time of the positive test in the French Open all the way to the YEC in November before he was punished so "it is discovered right after the final" isn't quite the way it works. I am skeptical about doping positives like Puerta and Canas by the way because there is no clear evidence that they willfully took doping or that the substances as detected could have a material affect on their performance, but let's not get into that.

After the past experiences, I suspect there is currently a much higher level of regulation and consideration within the ATP regarding possible doping positives. It is possible or even likely that there have been several doping test positives for top players since 2006 that have not been publicly announced because the ATP had doubts about whether those positives represented willfull doping or whether the test results were 100% conclusive. It is my opinion that the doping cases of Canas and Puerta were more a reflection of the political climate within sports bodies at the time rather than any increased suspectibility of Argentine players to use doping.
Thanks a lot for this elaborate, well-founded post. You might well be right, here, on all accounts, as sad as it it indeed is.

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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-27-2008, 06:50 AM
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Re: Question about doping

Quote:
Originally Posted by TankingTheSet View Post
I think the Korda positive was at least one and a half years after his AO win.
Quoting Wikipedia "A few months after his Australian Open victory in 1998, Korda became the first high-profile tennis player discovered ingesting a banned substance. Following a match at Wimbledon, Korda tested positive for nandrolone. Subsequently, he was banned from the sport for one year. Korda did not return to the professional tour; the ban effectively marked the end of his career."

Can anyone confirm this?

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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-27-2008, 07:41 AM
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Re: Question about doping

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolya View Post
Quoting Wikipedia "A few months after his Australian Open victory in 1998, Korda became the first high-profile tennis player discovered ingesting a banned substance. Following a match at Wimbledon, Korda tested positive for nandrolone. Subsequently, he was banned from the sport for one year. Korda did not return to the professional tour; the ban effectively marked the end of his career."

Can anyone confirm this?
It was at Wimbledon 98 he tested postitive, but he didn't get a suspension. Well, he did but it was overturned.

Does Wikipediea really say that :retard: He went to AO 99 as the defending champion.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-27-2008, 07:50 AM
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Re: Question about doping

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Originally Posted by l_mac View Post
It was at Wimbledon 98 he tested postitive, but he didn't get a suspension. Well, he did but it was overturned.

Does Wikipediea really say that :retard: He went to AO 99 as the defending champion.
Well it is Wikipedia

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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-27-2008, 08:18 AM
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Re: Question about doping

Korda ended up getting a 1 year ban in sep 99 (cuz ITF appealed his appeal), but by that time he had already retired (after losing in 1R of 99 wimbledon)
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-27-2008, 03:14 PM
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Re: Question about doping

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Originally Posted by Snoo Foo View Post
Korda ended up getting a 1 year ban in sep 99 (cuz ITF appealed his appeal), but by that time he had already retired (after losing in 1R of 99 wimbledon)
I think he lost qualies at Wimbledon

I take back my slur on Wikipedia (ish). I didn't remember the ban after he had already announced his retirement. I just knew that he hd played the AO in 99 and a lot of players weren't thrilled about it.
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-27-2008, 03:31 PM
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Re: Question about doping

i wanted to ask this question for a long time.

imagine if roger would get 3 FO Titles if Rafa was dopped. lol
or Rafa getting 2 more Wimbledon titles
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 11-27-2008, 06:43 PM
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Re: Question about doping

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Originally Posted by Diprosalic View Post
i wanted to ask this question for a long time.

imagine if roger would get 3 FO Titles if Rafa was dopped. lol
or Rafa getting 2 more Wimbledon titles

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