How strong is this era now that... - MensTennisForums.com

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post #1 of 72 (permalink) Old 09-08-2008, 12:13 AM Thread Starter
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How strong is this era now that...

...Federer, a potential GOAT candidate, is being legitimately challenged and, for the time being, defeated, at every single Slam by amazing talents like Nadal, Djokovic and now Murray?

Surely we must revise our diagnoses of mugginess! A long time from now, with all the history that's been made, the records being broken, the young talents rising through the rankings and the general depth of the ATP, I think we'll look upon this era with some measure of fondness as one of the greatest.

I support: Roger Federer; Richard Gasquet; Radek Stepanek; Mario Ancic; Robin Haase; because they are cool.

I also support: The Killers; Death Cab for Cutie; My Chemical Romance; The Smashing Pumpkins; Radiohead; because they are pretty cool, as well.

"It is cruel, you know, that music should be so beautiful. It has the beauty of loneliness of pain: of strength and freedom. The beauty of disappointment and never-satisfied love. The cruel beauty of nature and everlasting beauty of monotony." - Benjamin Britten.
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post #2 of 72 (permalink) Old 09-08-2008, 12:16 AM
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Re: How strong is this era now that...

Mug era.

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post #3 of 72 (permalink) Old 09-08-2008, 12:24 AM
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Re: How strong is this era now that...

Why are we still talking about Roger as if he were the best player in the world ? The fact of the matter is that Nadal is a better player at this point in their respective careers. Moreover, if Roger wins tomorrow this board will subsequently be bombarded with messages declaring his resurrection coupled with the usual posters possessing an accumulative vocabulary of two words -- mug and choke.

I suppose that one could attribute the defeats mentioned by the author of this thread to players with improved variety in their games, but what a lot of people fail to take into account is that it's perfectly normal to lose to top players in the latter stages of tournaments. Roger has been able to accomplish something that hadn't been seen in ages by routinely beating players in the finals of slams.

Last but not least, no player aside from Nadal has defeated Roger in a slam final and that's because Nadal is a better player than Roger. Neither Djokovic nor Murray are better players than Roger, although it is quite plausible that Murray would be able to disrupt Roger's rhythm and perhaps capitalize on a lackluster performance by the Swiss, but the only player in the history of tennis that could challenge Roger at his best remains Nadal.

Get over it, kids. Roger isn't the best player on tour, he's just trying to reach milestones at this point. This discussion is fundamentally flawed for the very reason that it's based on the premise that Roger is the player to beat. There is no way that he can routinely defeat top players tournament after tournament; Nadal, however, is quite a different story.

Last edited by prima donna; 09-08-2008 at 12:46 AM.
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post #4 of 72 (permalink) Old 09-08-2008, 12:26 AM
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Re: How strong is this era now that...

Just wait until Sampras comes back at Wimbledon next year and wipes the floor with all of them. He knows it's a mug era like all knowledgeable of tennis.
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post #5 of 72 (permalink) Old 09-08-2008, 12:27 AM
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Re: How strong is this era now that...

Fine era. In the open era, only the late 1970s and the late 1980s/early 90s were better.

www.yokozunatennis.blogspot.com

Current sanyaku ranked players:
Yokozuna: Roger Federer (Dai-Y), Novak Djokovic (Dai-Y), Andy Murray [Rafael Nadal is an inactive Dai-Yokozuna]
Ozeki: Stan Wawrinka (kadoban)
Sekiwake: Tomas Berdych (ex-Ozeki), Milos Raonic
Komusubi: none

Active ex-sanyaku-ranked players
Ozeki:
Del Potro, Ferrer. Sekiwake: Tsonga, Baghdatis, Haas, Raonic, Nishikori, Gasquet. Komusubi: Robredo, Ginepri, Gasquet, Verdasco, Melzer, Monfils, Youzhny, Janowicz, Dimitrov, Gulbis, Kyrgios, Thiem.
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post #6 of 72 (permalink) Old 09-08-2008, 12:27 AM
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Re: How strong is this era now that...

The truth is that the Nadaltard argument that Federer's era was "poor" was simply unravelling as we speak.

Champions are made out of consistency in every era, Murray might be on a roll, so was Djoko.. so was Nadal...
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post #7 of 72 (permalink) Old 09-08-2008, 12:33 AM
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Re: How strong is this era now that...

i don't think federer's losses mean the era is any stronger or weaker. the main reason for his losses is that federer has declined quite a bit since the '07 AO. he's slower, his FH is weaker and doesn't have the same depth as it did '04-'06. his FH used to be completely dominating, but now it's only above average.

i don't think fish(!!), roddick, blake, volandri, canas, stepanek, etc beat federer b/c they peaked (roddick and blake, for example, have also declined), they won b/c federer has weakened.
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post #8 of 72 (permalink) Old 09-08-2008, 12:41 AM
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Re: How strong is this era now that...

To be considered as a truly outstanding era, i would say the Nadal-Djoker-Murray generation only lacks an equivalent of Federer in term of style of play which could also challenge for the top titles.
Murray is the closest in term of talent but he has not the same grace on the court as Federer
Apart that,i think that it's a pretty strong a exciting era.
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post #9 of 72 (permalink) Old 09-08-2008, 12:48 AM Thread Starter
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Re: How strong is this era now that...

But prima donna, I don't speak of Federer as the best player in the world, I speak of him as a potential GOAT candidate. I understand that he is after decoration, not adulation.

I do not dismiss the view that Federer is declining, although I believe that reports of his decline are greatly exaggerated. He is the #2 player in the world, which makes him as a legitimate a threat as ever given his record. This notwithstanding, even during his reign at the top throughout 2004-2007, there were times when Federer was able to get away with not playing his best tennis and still win. Of course, he was also far more consistent during that period, but you don't go 92-5 or 81-4 by being consistent, you do it by being able to able to find a way to win when not at your best. With the amount of tennis being played today by top-level players, there are only so many good, or even great, days that players are allowed before they inevitably have a bad day.

So while I acknowledge that, at times, Federer may no longer be the monolith of tennis domination he once was, he is still the standard by which this generation and, by extension, this era will be judged - until one of his peers surpasses his achievements. We have to acknowledge that the players around him have gotten better, that they realised what they would have to do to improve to prevent Roger from making a mockery of competition in a sport as popular and global and competitive as tennis. So now, when Roger Federer has a bad day or rather, a below average performance, he loses - this just happens to coincide with the fact that he is having more bad days than usual, but that doesn't change the fact that during his great run, even his bad days were often sufficient to carry victory.


I think there is sufficient evidence to point us in the direction that the era of tennis we are currently witnessing is approaching its peak in overall strength.

I support: Roger Federer; Richard Gasquet; Radek Stepanek; Mario Ancic; Robin Haase; because they are cool.

I also support: The Killers; Death Cab for Cutie; My Chemical Romance; The Smashing Pumpkins; Radiohead; because they are pretty cool, as well.

"It is cruel, you know, that music should be so beautiful. It has the beauty of loneliness of pain: of strength and freedom. The beauty of disappointment and never-satisfied love. The cruel beauty of nature and everlasting beauty of monotony." - Benjamin Britten.
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post #10 of 72 (permalink) Old 09-08-2008, 01:11 AM
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Re: How strong is this era now that...

Nobody will win 3 slams per year for next .... years. It would be fun to see different players grabbing number one spot throughout the year. Of course, not by default; because they just edged out each other.


Roger is at last 5-6 years older than these guys. And, I don't think Nadal can play consistently for that long. He's been playing as hard as he can since he's very young (since he became number #2/for the last 4 years).
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post #11 of 72 (permalink) Old 09-08-2008, 01:11 AM
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Re: How strong is this era now that...

The success or failure of Roger's game is primarily based on factors which have little or nothing to do with his opponent -- with Rafael Nadal being exempt from this generalization. Roger was able to consistently demolish formidable opponents as a result of his great footwork and timing, there is no antidote or medicine to be prescribed to cure the inherent level of difficulty in returning shots which have been well-disguised, as well as have tremendous mass to them -- which is even further emphasized when a player is unable to anticipate the direction of said shots. As I've initially stated, the only player that has consistently had an answer for this level of play has been Rafael Nadal.

In fact, a match that comes to mind would be that which was played in Dubai, during which Roger was forced to play absolutely flawless tennis to win the 1st set (6-2), that scoreline would later prove to be deceptive as Roger's timing became less certain and Nadal's strokes became even more pronounced in their depth. Ultimately, Roger would end up losing that match despite having played magnificently, it was decided by a lapse in concentration and slight fatigue. The same story applies in Rome, which was more of a case of choking than Nadal's resilient play. I can't recall a match off the top of my head that Roger has lost despite having played so well against any player other than Nadal.

Novak Djokovic played relatively mediocre tennis to capture the 1st set in Australia (after having been down a break) and then started to swing more freely, but at no point during that match was Roger ever playing even close to decent tennis. Murray also had a notable victory against a rather lackadaisical Federer in Dubai. My point is, while the level of competition may indeed be improving, there would be no remedy neither in the form of Novak Djokovic nor Andy Murray to beat Federer at his peak -- which is a fair analysis, given the stature of Federer.

These arguments for what constitutes a weak or strong era are complicated enough without basing them on a few performances against the best player of all time, we should really be basing our conclusions on more visible factors, such as level of play and winning percentages on varying surfaces from player to player.
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post #12 of 72 (permalink) Old 09-08-2008, 01:26 AM
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Re: How strong is this era now that...

This is the ultimate MUG era. No Sampras, no Agassi, Becker. Just a bunch of topspin bumrooting mugs.
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post #13 of 72 (permalink) Old 09-08-2008, 01:29 AM
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Re: How strong is this era now that...

Joke era. One player in the top 10 can slice, for instance.

One of the worst ever eras when it comes to technical level.
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post #14 of 72 (permalink) Old 09-08-2008, 01:33 AM
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Re: How strong is this era now that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennMirnyi View Post
Joke era. One player in the top 10 can slice, for instance.

One of the worst ever eras when it comes to technical level.
At a technical level, yes, but in terms of sheer power and spin, this era remains unrivaled.
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post #15 of 72 (permalink) Old 09-08-2008, 01:33 AM
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Re: How strong is this era now that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennMirnyi View Post
Joke era. One player in the top 10 can slice, for instance.

One of the worst ever eras when it comes to technical level.
If Nadal and 2004-2007 Federer were playing in the 90's they would be 1 and 2.
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