When is it Absolutely Legit To Call For A Trainer? - MensTennisForums.com
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post #1 of 86 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 12:35 AM Thread Starter
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When is it Absolutely Legit To Call For A Trainer?

All,

Once and for all, when is it absolutely ok and legitimate for players to call for a trainer? Is it when:

1. A player seems to be suffering from the heat?

2. A player is feeling strain in said back and needs it massaged?

3. A player is cramping and needs the trainer to work out some kinks? (Remember Baggy against Andre at the US Open)

4. A player is having trouble breathing?

5. A player has a stomach ache and needs to eat a bannana or something?

6. A player feels a pain in the (fill in the blank) and needs a pain killer?

7. A player needs blisters treated?

Remember when Andre last played the French? He'd had a shot beforehand and it didn't last throughout the match. The commentators were commenting on how his back was hurting him so bad that he couldn't run after balls and what not - and therefore, he might not last and would have to retire? Yet, he finished and let his opponent get the applause. Was it worth it for him to have even gotten the shot and/or continued play?

Seriously, is the point of an injury timeout called to try to treat a legitmate injury(ies) so a player can play on? And if so, does it matter more if it is a GS, and if it's either a quarterfinal, semifinal or final?

Should some players just retire and get it over with if they are legitimately injured or should they try - try - try to keep playing by calling for the trainer - and in some cases, having a trainer on standby? WITH!

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post #2 of 86 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 12:42 AM
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Re: When is it Absolutely Legit To Call For A Trainer?

None of them. Lack of fitness isn't reason for treatment.

The only legit reason would be a clear injury like twisting your ankle.
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post #3 of 86 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 12:46 AM
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Re: When is it Absolutely Legit To Call For A Trainer?

The ATP needs to make the rule stricter but this isn't going to happen.

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post #4 of 86 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 12:51 AM
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Re: When is it Absolutely Legit To Call For A Trainer?

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Originally Posted by GlennMirnyi View Post
None of them. Lack of fitness isn't reason for treatment.

The only legit reason would be a clear injury like twisting your ankle.
What about suffering from the heat, I said that this was no excuse before the AO but had my mind changed. Humans just aren't made for running around in 35c+ temperatures (FFS all the other animals seek shade in the heat) and I think that if a player is suffering from the heat then he/she should get treatment... and severe heat can lead to cramping and blisters so then being treated for these would also be acceptable
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post #5 of 86 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 12:52 AM
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Re: When is it Absolutely Legit To Call For A Trainer?

All of them should be allowed. If you're starting to make the rule more difficult, having special exceptions like "when blood flows, he is allowed to call the trainer", "if he twists his ankle with at least 70 degrees, then he is allowed to call the trainer" or if it depends too much on the nature of the injury, you're just going to make it more complicated.

Allow almost for everything one injury timeout, or allow hardly none at all which would be stupid because getting retapes for ankles or treating small problems are important for the players' healths and sometimes allow that a match properly continues instead of a retirement or a lame effort due to a small problem which can be solved.

And if you want to be very correct, you have to make a difference between calling the trainer and an eventual time-out.

I'd rather have a player call the trainer or doctor in order to get expertise if he's suffering from a problem like extreme heat or just a bad daily conditions, bad stomach, allergy or whatever than continue him at all price to endure or risk more severe long-lasting problems.

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post #6 of 86 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 12:58 AM Thread Starter
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Re: When is it Absolutely Legit To Call For A Trainer?

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Originally Posted by StevoTG View Post
What about suffering from the heat, I said that this was no excuse before the AO but had my mind changed. Humans just aren't made for running around in 35c+ temperatures (FFS all the other animals seek shade in the heat) and I think that if a player is suffering from the heat then he/she should get treatment... and severe heat can lead to cramping and blisters so then being treated for these would also be acceptable
All,

This reason is the only one I can seriously agree with. Remember that Capriati/Hingis match? My God! It was like 120 degrees on the court and yet, these two troopers trooped on. It really was amazing. They didn't call for a trainer I don't remember, but they did take bathroom breaks and apply ice packs on their necks.

A player suffering from the heat is a bonafide reason to call for a trainer to me. I agree.
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post #7 of 86 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 01:04 AM
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Re: When is it Absolutely Legit To Call For A Trainer?

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Originally Posted by StevoTG View Post
What about suffering from the heat, I said that this was no excuse before the AO but had my mind changed. Humans just aren't made for running around in 35c+ temperatures (FFS all the other animals seek shade in the heat) and I think that if a player is suffering from the heat then he/she should get treatment... and severe heat can lead to cramping and blisters so then being treated for these would also be acceptable
So? If they want an easy job they should have studied to work in a lab with air conditioning. Every outdoor sport is played under heat.
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post #8 of 86 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 01:09 AM
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Re: When is it Absolutely Legit To Call For A Trainer?

It is clear that the rules today for injury timeouts can be abused from players intent on halting the opponent's momentum. Cramps, blisters, muscle soreness are not injuries and a timeout for a player to address those penalizes the opponent. One way to address the issue is to allow for medical timeouts at the end of a set. Any other request for a timeout during the set will incur a game penalty, unless it is related to an actual injury. This way injury timeouts become costly, and the opponent who did not get the timeout gets compensated for his opponent's timeout.

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post #9 of 86 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 01:11 AM
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Re: When is it Absolutely Legit To Call For A Trainer?

When Novak Djokovic feels like it.

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post #10 of 86 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 01:13 AM Thread Starter
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Re: When is it Absolutely Legit To Call For A Trainer?

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It is clear that the rules today for injury timeouts can be abused from players intent on halting the opponent's momentum. Cramps, blisters, muscle soreness are not injuries and a timeout for a player to address those penalizes the opponent. One way to address the issue is to allow for medical timeouts at the end of a set. Any other request for a timeout during the set will incur a game penalty, unless it is related to an actual injury. This way injury timeouts become costly, and the opponent who did not get the timeout gets compensated for his opponent's timeout.

All,

Great analysis Merton. Neely, I have to admit, you made some great points too. I'll holler at you all tomorrow. Have a good one.
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post #11 of 86 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 01:14 AM
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Re: When is it Absolutely Legit To Call For A Trainer?

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So? If they want an easy job they should have studied to work in a lab with air conditioning. Every outdoor sport is played under heat.
All fine and good if you're thinking like that, but then lets not whine about the tournament calendar anymore if there are back-to-back Masters, and then at the same time, on the other hand, we're agreeing to toy with the player's health forcing them to play under condidtions which are scientifically prooved to be extremely dangerous, extremely increasing the risk of heat stroke, heat illness, coma etc. and sometimes even death if it could be prevented that easily.

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post #12 of 86 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 01:22 AM
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Re: When is it Absolutely Legit To Call For A Trainer?

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Originally Posted by Merton View Post
It is clear that the rules today for injury timeouts can be abused from players intent on halting the opponent's momentum. Cramps, blisters, muscle soreness are not injuries and a timeout for a player to address those penalizes the opponent. One way to address the issue is to allow for medical timeouts at the end of a set. Any other request for a timeout during the set will incur a game penalty, unless it is related to an actual injury. This way injury timeouts become costly, and the opponent who did not get the timeout gets compensated for his opponent's timeout.
This approach doesn't sound too bad. It would make sense to introduce a sort of penalizing, but it would have to be with any injury time-out occuring, no matter if the injury is legit or not. Otherwise you're running into troubles again to judge what qualifies as a "real" injury or reason, and what not.

Of course experienced trainers and doctors can feel most muscle strains and other problems. So this could be a solution. But the chair umpire is unable to judge or detect that properly more often than not.

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post #13 of 86 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 01:25 AM
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Re: When is it Absolutely Legit To Call For A Trainer?

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All fine and good if you're thinking like that, but then lets not whine about the tournament calendar anymore if there are back-to-back Masters, and then at the same time, on the other hand, we're agreeing to toy with the player's health forcing them to play under condidtions which are scientifically prooved to be extremely dangerous, extremely increasing the risk of heat stroke, heat illness, coma etc. and sometimes even death if it could be prevented that easily.
Poor players... have you ever thought how much they earn to do just that? While a normal person has to study years and years and work his ass off to get 10%. It's not like they can't retire if they don't feel well.
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post #14 of 86 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 01:29 AM
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Re: When is it Absolutely Legit To Call For A Trainer?

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Poor players... have you ever thought how much they earn to do just that? While a normal person has to study years and years and work his ass off to get 10%. It's not like they can't retire if they don't feel well.
No problem, I already said it's okay to think like that and I'm surely not known best for pitying the (top) players for their baaaaaad and uncomfortable life on the Tour, but my point was simply that these two things don't go along very well.

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post #15 of 86 (permalink) Old 06-03-2008, 01:31 AM
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Re: When is it Absolutely Legit To Call For A Trainer?

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No problem, I already said it's okay to think like that and I'm not known best for pitying the (top) players for their baaaaaad and uncomfortable life on the Tour, but my point was simply that these two extremes don't go along.
I'm definitely not complaining about the tour schedule. No player is playing at gunpoint.
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