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post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-23-2008, 07:39 PM Thread Starter
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Nadal vs Borg on clay

I guess this has been done before many times, I would still like to hear some opinions about how the 2 clay masters compare with each other. Clearly the game is different from 30 years ago, with different equipment and the clay getting faster for each year. It is pretty obvious Borg would beat Nadal with a wooden raquet and the same goes for Nadal with modern raquets. It is also clear that we cant compare their overall achievment, because Nadals career isnt over yet. I wasnt even born when Borg was playing tennis, so what I want to know is if he dominated his opponents the same way Nadal dominates his opponents, aswell as the quality of Borgs opponents in comparasion with todays players on claycourts. From results only it seems Nadal is dominating this era on clay more than even Borg 30 years ago, what I dont know is the quality of Borgs opponents.

I know Vilas was a great player but it seems like he was Borgs btch on clay and couldnt challenge him much better than Djokovic can challenge Nadal on clay. For me the question is about players like Panatta who defeated Borg 5 times on clay, twice in roland garros. What kind of player was Panatta, why did he cause Borg so much trouble?

It also seems like Borg was less serious about lesser clay events where he often lost to unknown players, in fact Borg didnt even care for RG that much as he one year in his prime simply decided not to play the tournament.

For me Nadal seems to have been more dominant in his 3 years on the top of the hill and it also seems like every clay event is very important to him. On the other hand Borg had more well known clay opponents like Vilas and Lendl in his late clay career, maybe that is what is missing in Nadals clay era (unless you count Roger as a great clay opponent).

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post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-23-2008, 07:55 PM
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Re: Nadal vs Borg on clay

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Originally Posted by Pigsarestupid View Post
I guess this has been done before many times, I would still like to hear some opinions about how the 2 clay masters compare with each other. Clearly the game is different from 30 years ago, with different equipment and the clay getting faster for each year. It is pretty obvious Borg would beat Nadal with a wooden raquet and the same goes for Nadal with modern raquets. It is also clear that we cant compare their overall achievment, because Nadals career isnt over yet. I wasnt even born when Borg was playing tennis, so what I want to know is if he dominated his opponents the same way Nadal dominates his opponents, aswell as the quality of Borgs opponents in comparasion with todays players on claycourts. From results only it seems Nadal is dominating this era on clay more than even Borg 30 years ago, what I dont know is the quality of Borgs opponents.

I know Vilas was a great player but it seems like he was Borgs btch on clay and couldnt challenge him much better than Djokovic can challenge Nadal on clay. For me the question is about players like Panatta who defeated Borg 5 times on clay, twice in roland garros. What kind of player was Panatta, why did he cause Borg so much trouble?

It also seems like Borg was less serious about lesser clay events where he often lost to unknown players, in fact Borg didnt even care for RG that much as he one year in his prime simply decided not to play the tournament.

For me Nadal seems to have been more dominant in his 3 years on the top of the hill and it also seems like every clay event is very important to him. On the other hand Borg had more well known clay opponents like Vilas and Lendl in his late clay career, maybe that is what is missing in Nadals clay era (unless you count Roger as a great clay opponent).
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post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-23-2008, 08:09 PM
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Re: Nadal vs Borg on clay

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Originally Posted by Pigsarestupid View Post
what I want to know is if he dominated his opponents the same way Nadal dominates his opponents
Roland Garros, France
Grand Slam, 29-May-78, O, Clay , Draw: 128


Deblicker, Eric (FRA) 6-1 6-1 6-1
Fagel, Rick (USA) 6-0 6-1 6-0
Bertolucci, Paolo (ITA) 6-0 6-2 6-2
Tanner, Roscoe (USA) 6-2 6-4 7-6
Ramirez, Raul (MEX) 6-3 6-3 6-0
Barazzutti, Corrado (ITA) 6-0 6-1 6-0
Vilas, Guillermo (ARG) 6-1 6-1 6-3

Roland Garros, France
Grand Slam, 26-May-80, O, Clay , Draw: 128

Fillol, Alvaro (CHI) 6-3 6-1 6-4
Gomez, Andres (ECU) 6-2 6-2 6-1
Portes, Pascal (FRA) 6-3 6-0 6-1
Taroczy, Balazs (HUN) 6-2 6-2 6-0
Barazzutti, Corrado (ITA) 6-0 6-3 6-3
Solomon, Harold (USA) 6-2 6-2 6-0
Gerulaitis, Vitas (USA) 6-4 6-1 6-2

Champions deserve whatever they win playing within the laws of the game
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post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-23-2008, 08:11 PM
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Re: Nadal vs Borg on clay

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Originally Posted by stebs View Post
Roland Garros, France
Grand Slam, 29-May-78, O, Clay , Draw: 128


Deblicker, Eric (FRA) 6-1 6-1 6-1
Fagel, Rick (USA) 6-0 6-1 6-0
Bertolucci, Paolo (ITA) 6-0 6-2 6-2
Tanner, Roscoe (USA) 6-2 6-4 7-6
Ramirez, Raul (MEX) 6-3 6-3 6-0
Barazzutti, Corrado (ITA) 6-0 6-1 6-0
Vilas, Guillermo (ARG) 6-1 6-1 6-3

Roland Garros, France
Grand Slam, 26-May-80, O, Clay , Draw: 128

Fillol, Alvaro (CHI) 6-3 6-1 6-4
Gomez, Andres (ECU) 6-2 6-2 6-1
Portes, Pascal (FRA) 6-3 6-0 6-1
Taroczy, Balazs (HUN) 6-2 6-2 6-0
Barazzutti, Corrado (ITA) 6-0 6-3 6-3
Solomon, Harold (USA) 6-2 6-2 6-0
Gerulaitis, Vitas (USA) 6-4 6-1 6-2
That TB is a disgrace
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post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-23-2008, 08:11 PM
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Re: Nadal vs Borg on clay

I see Borg lost the most games to Tanner, I heard he always had problems with big servers, especially Tanner.

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post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-23-2008, 08:21 PM
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Re: Nadal vs Borg on clay

Quote:
Originally Posted by stebs View Post
Roland Garros, France
Grand Slam, 29-May-78, O, Clay , Draw: 128


Deblicker, Eric (FRA) 6-1 6-1 6-1
Fagel, Rick (USA) 6-0 6-1 6-0
Bertolucci, Paolo (ITA) 6-0 6-2 6-2
Tanner, Roscoe (USA) 6-2 6-4 7-6
Ramirez, Raul (MEX) 6-3 6-3 6-0
Barazzutti, Corrado (ITA) 6-0 6-1 6-0
Vilas, Guillermo (ARG) 6-1 6-1 6-3

Roland Garros, France
Grand Slam, 26-May-80, O, Clay , Draw: 128

Fillol, Alvaro (CHI) 6-3 6-1 6-4
Gomez, Andres (ECU) 6-2 6-2 6-1
Portes, Pascal (FRA) 6-3 6-0 6-1
Taroczy, Balazs (HUN) 6-2 6-2 6-0
Barazzutti, Corrado (ITA) 6-0 6-3 6-3
Solomon, Harold (USA) 6-2 6-2 6-0
Gerulaitis, Vitas (USA) 6-4 6-1 6-2
I am sure if MTF existed the weak claycourt era(at that time) would definitely have been pointed out for those who couldn't see it

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post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-23-2008, 08:21 PM
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Re: Nadal vs Borg on clay

Quote:
Originally Posted by stebs View Post
Roland Garros, France
Grand Slam, 29-May-78, O, Clay , Draw: 128


Deblicker, Eric (FRA) 6-1 6-1 6-1
Fagel, Rick (USA) 6-0 6-1 6-0
Bertolucci, Paolo (ITA) 6-0 6-2 6-2
Tanner, Roscoe (USA) 6-2 6-4 7-6
Ramirez, Raul (MEX) 6-3 6-3 6-0
Barazzutti, Corrado (ITA) 6-0 6-1 6-0
Vilas, Guillermo (ARG) 6-1 6-1 6-3

Roland Garros, France
Grand Slam, 26-May-80, O, Clay , Draw: 128

Fillol, Alvaro (CHI) 6-3 6-1 6-4
Gomez, Andres (ECU) 6-2 6-2 6-1
Portes, Pascal (FRA) 6-3 6-0 6-1
Taroczy, Balazs (HUN) 6-2 6-2 6-0
Barazzutti, Corrado (ITA) 6-0 6-3 6-3
Solomon, Harold (USA) 6-2 6-2 6-0
Gerulaitis, Vitas (USA) 6-4 6-1 6-2

For sure Borg played during a time where there were only giants of the game on a clay court. The competition he faced was terrifying.
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post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-23-2008, 08:57 PM
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Re: Nadal vs Borg on clay

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Originally Posted by tennizen View Post
I am sure if MTF existed the weak claycourt era(at that time) would definitely have been pointed out for those who couldn't see it
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Originally Posted by l_mac View Post
For sure Borg played during a time where there were only giants of the game on a clay court. The competition he faced was terrifying.
Are you two ACTUALLY suggesting that Borg played during a weak clay era? That's ridiculous.

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post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-23-2008, 09:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Nadal vs Borg on clay

Can somebody explain to me why Panatta caused so much problem for Borg on clay? How was Panattas game? What weapon did he have that caused Borg to lose to him 5 times on clay and twice in RG?

Also I wonder when Nadals Panatta will show up...
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post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-23-2008, 09:10 PM
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Re: Nadal vs Borg on clay

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Are you two ACTUALLY suggesting that Borg played during a weak clay era? That's ridiculous.
No I am actually saying that the lopsidedness of those scores was because of Borg's greatness while Nadal's dominance is merely due to the absence of good clay courters

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post #11 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-23-2008, 09:11 PM
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Re: Nadal vs Borg on clay

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No I am actually saying that the lopsidedness of those scores was because of Borg's greatness while Nadal's dominance is merely due to the absence of good clay courters
Oh. Spot on then. That makes sense. Please disregard previous post.

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post #12 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-23-2008, 09:21 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Nadal vs Borg on clay

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No I am actually saying that the lopsidedness of those scores was because of Borg's greatness while Nadal's dominance is merely due to the absence of good clay courters
Did you watch tennis when Borg was playing? I really dont know how many here even existed when Borg was winning titles. I doubt a little that Borgs opponents were so much better than Nadals opponents and I cant find any objective reasons to belive in that theory.
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post #13 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-23-2008, 09:24 PM
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Re: Nadal vs Borg on clay

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Originally Posted by Pigsarestupid View Post
Can somebody explain to me why Panatta caused so much problem for Borg on clay? How was Panattas game? What weapon did he have that caused Borg to lose to him 5 times on clay and twice in RG?

Also I wonder when Nadals Panatta will show up...
he was a very talented S&V who ironically was at his best on slow surfaces.
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post #14 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-23-2008, 09:27 PM
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Re: Nadal vs Borg on clay

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Originally Posted by Pigsarestupid View Post
Did you watch tennis when Borg was playing? I really dont know how many here even existed when Borg was winning titles. I doubt a little that Borgs opponents were so much better than Nadals opponents and I cant find any objective reasons to belive in that theory.
There is actually an easy way to find objective reasons. You can determine which players are NATURAL clay-courters, and see what percentage of people winning clay matches were clay-courters and what percentage of people winning hardcourt/grass/carpet matches were hardcourt/grass/carpet players. The fact of the matters is there are FAR fewer top claycourters now, and even those claycourters lose regularly to hardcourters. In Borg's time there were more claycourters and they beat hardcourt/grass/carpet players far more often.

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post #15 of 41 (permalink) Old 04-23-2008, 09:28 PM
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Re: Nadal vs Borg on clay

tennis would win
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