The Federer Decline Thread - Page 84 - MensTennisForums.com

View Poll Results: Do you agree with Pete?
No. I think Federer's decline is a fact and he's not winning any major in the future. 39 17.57%
I kinda agree... He's in a great moment, but the other 2 guys are too good. No more slams for Feddy 45 20.27%
I totally agree. Fed's still playing great tennis and he'll probably win another major 105 47.30%
Hello. I'm Rod Laver and my records are intact. Suck it losers. 33 14.86%
Voters: 222. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1246 of 1591 (permalink) Old 10-13-2012, 11:59 PM
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Re: When did Federer lose his prime forehand?

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Originally Posted by guga2120 View Post
When he started playing prime guys like Rafa, Novak and Murray. When he was against Roddick, Baghdatis, and geriatric Agassi it was unstoppable.
Some examples of when Federer's forehand was on fire: USO 2008 final, WTF 2011 RR vs. Nadal, Cincinnati 2009 final (first set anyway).
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post #1247 of 1591 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 12:00 AM
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Re: When did Federer lose his prime forehand?

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Some examples of when Federer's forehand was on fire: USO 2008 final, WTF 2011 RR vs. Nadal, Cincinnati 2009 final (first set anyway).
Cincinnati 2012 final and Indian Wells 2012 SF .


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post #1248 of 1591 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 12:08 AM
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Re: When did Federer lose his prime forehand?

Federer won Wimbledon outplaying Murray and Djokovic with his backhand and volleying alot in the final, his forehand was very up and down. If you attack Federer's forehand side you will get alot of points, too many players get stuck in backhand rally exchanges and dare not go to the forehand believing Federer can move to his forehand side as fast as in his peak.

Djokovic is one player who really is surprisingly passive against Federer when he got weapons to be alot more offensive, that is probably why he still gets outplayed by 31 year old Federer on faster surfaces.

All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
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post #1249 of 1591 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 12:08 AM
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Re: When did Federer lose his prime forehand?

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For me it`s easier with his backhand. Now looks like Fed always had this swing to be his main weakness, but till 2008 I never was scared every time he played backhand. But then... I think it had a lot to do with his loss to Nadal at Wimbledon. Not like before he hit the ball without EU and later couldn`t find a court, but something changed at least in my sensation. Cincy, Toronto, OG, even victory at US - backhand always gave a lot to think about. Hovewer Fed`s forehand remained to destroy opponents from any position.

But at some moment Fed lost it too. I mean he still has some great stretches with different kinds of shots from "open" racquet, but misses started to increase and the feeling about inevitable punishment for player who dared to hit the ball to Federer`s strong hand disappeared.

I was trying to remember my impressions, when I felt it happening the first time, but just can`t. Surely, the most important reason here is declining in speed. A bit worse footwork and so on. Such things always consist of many factors.

Anyone?
Winner of Wimbledon, 6 titles so far in 2012, and #1 in the world with a declined fh
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post #1250 of 1591 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 12:43 AM
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Re: When did Federer lose his prime forehand?

His forehand is still there - it just looks much worse in comaprison to prime Nadal's. That's why people think it has declined.
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post #1251 of 1591 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 12:45 AM
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Re: When did Federer lose his prime forehand?

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His forehand is still there - it just looks much worse in comaprison to prime Nadal's. That's why people think it has declined.
Incomparable, one is a liquid whip, the other is a cyclone. Both are good for different reasons.

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post #1252 of 1591 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 12:49 AM
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Re: When did Federer lose his prime forehand?

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Incomparable, one is a liquid whip, the other is a cyclone. Both are good for different reasons.
Nadal can hit both flat and with superspin when at his best. Olderer can hit flat, but his pure topspin FH is significantly weaker, there is a reason why Nadal has the greatest FH down the line and passing shots. The thing that put Olderer's FH above Nadal a few years ago is the pure flat drive, which Nadal somewhat lacked. After 2008, IMO, Nadal's FH has become the greatest shot in this sport.
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post #1253 of 1591 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 01:00 AM
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Re: When did Federer lose his prime forehand?

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Originally Posted by Topspindoctor View Post
Nadal can hit both flat and with superspin when at his best. Olderer can hit flat, but his pure topspin FH is significantly weaker, there is a reason why Nadal has the greatest FH down the line and passing shots. The thing that put Olderer's FH above Nadal a few years ago is the pure flat drive, which Nadal somewhat lacked. After 2008, IMO, Nadal's FH has become the greatest shot in this sport.
Just the opposite is true. Federer has a great flat and topspin fh. Nadal has a great topspin fh but he lacks the flat drive.
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post #1254 of 1591 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 01:08 AM
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Re: When did Federer lose his prime forehand?

2008.
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post #1255 of 1591 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 10:18 AM
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Re: When did Federer lose his prime forehand?

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I would rather ask when it became so easy attacking Feds serve, it doesnt always happen but sometimes nowadays you see players like Murray and Berdych just ripping on Feds 2nd serve and sometimes 1st serve. I think I remember Nalbandian doing that on indoor courts at some point in Feds peak, but even then Fed had the footwork to respond to those attacks unlike nowadays.

I dont recall anyone able to attack Nadals serve like that since he improved his serve, neither Djokovic's which is strange. At the same time Feds 2nd serve can be very effective if he gets it going, his 2 main rivals; Djokovic and Nadal doesnt really have the ability to attack it.

I think the key change to the worse in Feds game is that he has so much more difficulty to turn defense to offense compared to before because of slower footwork, so if you put him on the defensive nowadays you will put him out of balance, Murray has understood this and stopped pushing against Federer but attacks alot. In fact Murray is more offensive against Federer than Nadal and Djokovic who still think pushing for mistakes still is the most effective way to beat Federer.
I think you answered here yourself about serve. I can easily find out when Rogie`s troubles with back increasing by looking on his average figures on 1st and 2nd serve speed. For example here in Shanghai he was far from OK, his 1st serve was ridiculously slow by any rate.

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post #1256 of 1591 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 10:46 AM
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Re: When did Federer lose his prime forehand?

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Winner of Wimbledon, 6 titles so far in 2012, and #1 in the world with a declined fh

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post #1257 of 1591 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 10:51 AM
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Re: When did Federer lose his prime forehand?

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Originally Posted by Topspindoctor View Post
Nadal can hit both flat and with superspin when at his best. Olderer can hit flat, but his pure topspin FH is significantly weaker, there is a reason why Nadal has the greatest FH down the line and passing shots. The thing that put Olderer's FH above Nadal a few years ago is the pure flat drive, which Nadal somewhat lacked. After 2008, IMO, Nadal's FH has become the greatest shot in this sport.
Why does the guy who has the guy who has the greatest FH DTL hardly ever use it vs. Djokovic, letting him get pinned down by his backhand?
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post #1258 of 1591 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 11:13 AM
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Re: When did Federer lose his prime forehand?

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Originally Posted by Topspindoctor View Post
Nadal can hit both flat and with superspin when at his best. Olderer can hit flat, but his pure topspin FH is significantly weaker, there is a reason why Nadal has the greatest FH down the line and passing shots. The thing that put Olderer's FH above Nadal a few years ago is the pure flat drive, which Nadal somewhat lacked. After 2008, IMO, Nadal's FH has become the greatest shot in this sport.
Not sure when you started following tennis, but your comment about forehands down the line is completely incorrect.

When Federer was in his prime, his down the line forehand was arguably his main strength. He would often finish rallies which appeared to be in a neutral position by cracking forehands down the line and following into the net anticipating the retrieved slice. The difference with Nadal being that he doesn't have the ability to hit flat. Federer didn't need (and still doesn't when he's confident) to loop the ball over the high part of the net, he had a knack for precise timing and feel that allowed him to choose the more aggressive option.

Nadal's crosscourt forehand is the far more effective shot simply because he's left handed and can generate so much spin to create angles to open up the court. However, this play can be neutralised by not allowing Nadal time and hitting flat and hard. There's not much you could do about Federer's forehand because he once thrived on pace and if you gave him time, he'd happily put the ball wherever he wanted.
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post #1259 of 1591 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 12:52 PM
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Re: The Federer Decline Thread (Is he done)

If any of you is old enough to have done Latin, you're probably familiar with Gibbons "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire". It took over 1000 pages to achieve it. Seems Fed's decline and fall might take relatively as long



"When I'm asked, how is it to be around Federer, and what is he really like, I always reply, "I wish people could meet him when cameras or an audience aren't around, as he is one of the nicest people I have ever met when stringing on tour. " -- drakulie
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post #1260 of 1591 (permalink) Old 10-22-2012, 01:43 AM
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What is wrong with Roger Federer? Sudden drop in form.

He is almost certainty going to lose the No. 1 spot next week. Djokovic and Murray is laughing in his face.

After winning his 17th slam, Roger's hasn't beaten a top 4 player since. He's lost to Murray the last two times in straights and now Murray heads the Head-to-head. How long is it going to be before Murray starts saying he is greater than Federer in interviews?

Why the sudden drop in form. He doesn't look like he can beat either Djokovic or Murray right now and he is defending everything. Basel, Paris, WTF.

Is this end? It reminds me of how after one last run in 2009 it was over for Roddick. He collapsed in the ranking until his retirement this year. The former world No. 1 and slam winner on his last legs. Is Roger going the way of Roddick?
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