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post #301 of 471 (permalink) Old 10-18-2008, 06:57 PM
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Re: ATP Champions Race to Shanghai 2008

There is a mistake in Del Potro's count. The optional bar for him is 5 points, not 0, since the 0 is staying put as a penalty optional from Queens...
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post #302 of 471 (permalink) Old 10-18-2008, 07:01 PM
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Re: ATP Champions Race to Shanghai 2008

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Originally Posted by El Burro View Post
Marathon win over Nadal puts him into his first Masters final!!! Now just 6pts off the "Shanghai 8"!!! How he plans to take part in Lyon, next week, is beyond me...he MUST honour his commitment if he isn't to incur a "0 points" penalty (I think?), which would be very damaging for him (-10pts). It all gets very interesting now, as Ferrer, just 7pts ahead, isn't down to play next week...
Isn't exhaustion a valid medical reason?! I thought he just needs to go there, let the tournament doc attest he is exhausted (I can't believe Lyon will force him to play since it would jeopardize his chances for Bercy) and take part to a couple of signing sessions and promo stuff.

Anyway, I don't care about him going to Shanghai, I'm afraid he will be exhausted if he does and chances are big he will only be cannon fodder there.
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post #303 of 471 (permalink) Old 10-18-2008, 07:04 PM
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Re: ATP Champions Race to Shanghai 2008

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Originally Posted by fco253 View Post
There is a mistake in Del Potro's count. The optional bar for him is 5 points, not 0, since the 0 is staying put as a penalty optional from Queens...
True, but the optionals don't affect the total this week, do they? Surely the Masters are just added on without deduction?

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post #304 of 471 (permalink) Old 10-18-2008, 07:11 PM
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Re: ATP Champions Race to Shanghai 2008

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Originally Posted by decrepitude View Post
True, but the optionals don't affect the total this week, do they? Surely the Masters are just added on without deduction?
Yeah, the last countable score won't affect the TMS results from here or Paris, but they will affect Del Potro in Basel starting Monday.
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post #305 of 471 (permalink) Old 10-18-2008, 07:49 PM Thread Starter
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Re: ATP Champions Race to Shanghai 2008

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Originally Posted by fco253 View Post
There is a mistake in Del Potro's count. The optional bar for him is 5 points, not 0, since the 0 is staying put as a penalty optional from Queens...
Thanks for pointing it out, and it has been duly corrected.


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Originally Posted by Truc View Post
Isn't exhaustion a valid medical reason?! I thought he just needs to go there, let the tournament doc attest he is exhausted (I can't believe Lyon will force him to play since it would jeopardize his chances for Bercy) and take part to a couple of signing sessions and promo stuff.

Anyway, I don't care about him going to Shanghai, I'm afraid he will be exhausted if he does and chances are big he will only be cannon fodder there.
For me, and most normal people, "exhaustion" would be a very valid reason...but this is the ATP. I don't know if he or any of his camp know how close he is in the points Race, but if I were in his shoes I wouldn't want to take a risk (unless I felt I would put myself at risk of injury)...and would probably tank R1. Can't think he'd want to go playing into next weekend just so he could get a minimal lead over Ferrer...a lead that could disappear with one match result in Paris.

Agree with last part...not sure who he would beat (maybe an outside chance against Davydenko and Roddick), but I guess he would be $90,000 richer, at least.

Last edited by El Burro; 10-18-2008 at 07:55 PM.
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post #306 of 471 (permalink) Old 10-18-2008, 08:22 PM
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Re: ATP Champions Race to Shanghai 2008

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Originally Posted by Voo de Mar View Post
Simon After amazing week in Madrid he deserves to play in Shanghai especially that he is the only player (beside Murray) who has beaten Top 3 players this year.
You forgot about Roddick, he also has beaten the "great" trio!
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post #307 of 471 (permalink) Old 10-18-2008, 09:22 PM Thread Starter
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Re: ATP Champions Race to Shanghai 2008

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Simon After amazing week in Madrid he deserves to play in Shanghai especially that he is the only player (beside Murray) who has beaten Top 3 players this year.
We saw this sort of opinion last year, when Fat Dave ripped the European indoor season a new one...come on mate, you know as well as everyone else that a place at the TMC rewards a season's work (loosely speaking, anyway - e.g. see Del Potro, for the opposite), so it is Simon's problem that he didn't do better in the mandatories in the first half of the season (which would have won him more points), for example.
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post #308 of 471 (permalink) Old 10-18-2008, 11:09 PM
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Re: ATP Champions Race to Shanghai 2008

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You forgot about Roddick, he also has beaten the "great" trio!
Amazing but true! I've completely forgotten about it because of Roddick's poor form lately

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post #309 of 471 (permalink) Old 10-19-2008, 02:26 AM
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Re: ATP Champions Race to Shanghai 2008

I have a doubt here.

Looking at ATP site, Del Potro played the 4 GS, 4 MS (2 Miami & Rome + Indian Wells (he quit and received 0 points) + Madrid this week); and have 9 non mandatory events = 17 events so he still has 1 tournament more he can add to the ATP Race Rank. He also has as non countable: Adelaide but he received 0 points due that he lost in 1st Round.

I think ATP will not deduct 5 points unless he was ranked to play more than 3 MS before and he had not do it but if that was the case ATP should had include them as DNP.

At the end of the year after he plays Basel and Paris, ATP should deduct 5 points if he earns 5 or more in Basel as he will have more than 18 tournaments. 4 GS + 5 MS + 10 non mandatory.

Am I right?
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post #310 of 471 (permalink) Old 10-19-2008, 02:39 AM
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Re: ATP Champions Race to Shanghai 2008

Simon ante portas

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post #311 of 471 (permalink) Old 10-19-2008, 02:42 AM
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Re: ATP Champions Race to Shanghai 2008

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Originally Posted by mgorganchian View Post
I think ATP will not deduct 5 points unless he was ranked to play more than 3 MS before and he had not do it but if that was the case ATP should had include them as DNP.

At the end of the year after he plays Basel and Paris, ATP should deduct 5 points if he earns 5 or more in Basel as he will have more than 18 tournaments. 4 GS + 5 MS + 10 non mandatory.

Am I right?
Yes. If he picks up more than 5 in Basel it will displace Vienna, and join the other 7 non-mandatorys, the 0 from Queen's Club, and the 5 MSs and 4 GSs for 1+7+1+5+4 = 18 tournaments.

Further to your question about being eligible for MS events, yes if you are eligible but do not enter an event, you get a 0 listed on the ATP profile (see Nalbandian for Toronto + Cininatti, or DelPo for Indian Wells). So between Rome and Madrid Del Potro was not eligible for any of them, and though (if I recall correctly) he could have gotten an SE for Toronto, that does not count as being 'eligible'.

Last edited by Blarghman; 10-19-2008 at 02:48 AM. Reason: Adding some clarification
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post #312 of 471 (permalink) Old 10-19-2008, 01:15 PM
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Re: ATP Champions Race to Shanghai 2008

Interesting on the Roddick/Simon stat of having beating the top 3. Roddick had a w/o over Murray at queens but Simon will get another chance today to beat the top 4.

Why include Murray? Here's the H2H of the top 4 against each other this year.

Nadal 11-3
Federer 3-7
Djokovic 4-8
Murray 5-5

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post #313 of 471 (permalink) Old 10-19-2008, 04:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: ATP Champions Race to Shanghai 2008

Brilliant week for Murray, and his second successive Masters title earns him a staggering 202pts lead over Davydenko, at #5!
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post #314 of 471 (permalink) Old 10-20-2008, 12:43 PM
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Re: ATP Champions Race to Shanghai 2008

Davydenko has qualified according to ATP Tennis.

4th year in a row!

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post #315 of 471 (permalink) Old 10-20-2008, 02:03 PM
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Re: ATP Champions Race to Shanghai 2008

I think it's pretty safe to say Roddick will make it as well... the final two seats will be the hardest fought. I hope Del Potro and Simon take them over Ferrer who has been collapsing during the indoor season.

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