Is Nadal really mentally as tough as people claim? - MensTennisForums.com
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 102 (permalink) Old 09-14-2007, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
country flag rwn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 612
                     
Is Nadal really mentally as tough as people claim?

Here are Nadal's grand slam losses on hardcourt 2005-2007:

AO 2005 Hewitt 5-7,6-3,6-1,6-7,2-6
USO 2005 Blake 4-6,6-3,3-6,1-6
USO 2006 Youzhny 3-6,7-5,6-7,1-6
AO 2007 Gonzalez 2-6,4-6,3-6
USO 2007 Ferrer 7-6,4-6,6-7,2-6

Nadal basically collapsed in almost all of these matches. Several times after losing an important tiebreak. This doesn't look like enormous mental strength to me. At least not on hardcourt.
rwn is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 102 (permalink) Old 09-14-2007, 11:50 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Age: 31
Posts: 4,144
                     
Re: Is Nadal really mentally as tough as people claim?

His gamestyle makes him mentally tough, but it's possible to discourage him (like in matches you mentioned)

But beware, I started similar thread a year ago and got dissed
Adler is offline  
post #3 of 102 (permalink) Old 09-14-2007, 11:52 AM
Can't be bothered anymore
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Age: 41
Posts: 22,996
                     
Re: Is Nadal really mentally as tough as people claim?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwn View Post
Here are Nadal's grand slam losses on hardcourt 2005-2007:

AO 2005 Hewitt 5-7,6-3,6-1,6-7,2-6
USO 2005 Blake 4-6,6-3,3-6,1-6
USO 2006 Youzhny 3-6,7-5,6-7,1-6
AO 2007 Gonzalez 2-6,4-6,3-6
USO 2007 Ferrer 7-6,4-6,6-7,2-6

Nadal basically collapsed in almost all of these matches. Several times after losing an important tiebreak. This doesn't look like enormous mental strength to me. At least not on hardcourt.
Be prepared for the comments that he got outplayed on hardcourt and that the result of the match had nothing to do with mental strength.
Eden is offline  
post #4 of 102 (permalink) Old 09-14-2007, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
country flag rwn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 612
                     
Re: Is Nadal really mentally as tough as people claim?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eden View Post
Be prepared for the comments that he got outplayed on hardcourt and that the result of the match had nothing to do with mental strength.
I'm aware of that. I'm just sick of people claiming that Federer is mentally weak without evidence. I give evidence for my claim that Nadal is mentally not as strong as people claim.
rwn is offline  
post #5 of 102 (permalink) Old 09-14-2007, 11:56 AM
Registered User
 
BlueSwan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Age: 41
Posts: 2,243
                     
Re: Is Nadal really mentally as tough as people claim?

I don't think a factor such as mental strength can be isolated from other factors such as surface and match-ups. Pete Sampras is generally recognized as a mental giant, but obviously he felt much more confident on grass than on clay. Likewise with Nadal, who is obviously much more confident on clay and for some reason seem to have confidence issues on hard courts since last year.

Match-ups also means something. Federer can bring his C-game to a match against one of his bitches and know that he can always pull a win out of his ass if he comes under pressure. On the other hand, Federer seems to lack confidence when playing Nadal.

But generally speaking, Federer, Nadal and Djokovic all appear to be very strong mentally.
BlueSwan is offline  
post #6 of 102 (permalink) Old 09-14-2007, 11:56 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,396
                     
Re: Is Nadal really mentally as tough as people claim?

In my opinion, in order to be mentally tough, you must have faith in your general play: "I have the tools and weapons, I just have to keep my focus, go unruined until the opportunity comes, and then seize it." And I don't think Nadal has faith in his fastcourt play (not yet, at least), so he often appears mentally weak, which in general case he isn't.
Farenhajt is offline  
post #7 of 102 (permalink) Old 09-14-2007, 11:59 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Age: 31
Posts: 4,144
                     
Re: Is Nadal really mentally as tough as people claim?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwn View Post
I'm just sick of people claiming that Federer is mentally weak without evidence. I give evidence for my claim that Nadal is mentally not as strong as people claim
And that's the thing. Now let's just hope people won't have problems with reading comprehension

for example:

you wrote: "Nadal is mentally not as strong as people claim"
some folks here will read it as "Nadal is not strong mentally"

you wrote: "I'm just sick of people claiming that Federer is mentally weak without evidence"
people will read it as "Federer is the strongest mentally guy on the tour"
Adler is offline  
post #8 of 102 (permalink) Old 09-14-2007, 12:09 PM Thread Starter
country flag rwn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 612
                     
Re: Is Nadal really mentally as tough as people claim?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adler View Post
And that's the thing. Now let's just hope people won't have problems with reading comprehension

for example:

you wrote: "Nadal is mentally not as strong as people claim"
some folks here will read it as "Nadal is not strong mentally"

you wrote: "I'm just sick of people claiming that Federer is mentally weak without evidence"
people will read it as "Federer is the strongest mentally guy on the tour"
I'm not saying he's mentally weak. You can't be if you win grand slam tournaments.
rwn is offline  
post #9 of 102 (permalink) Old 09-14-2007, 12:10 PM Thread Starter
country flag rwn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 612
                     
Re: Is Nadal really mentally as tough as people claim?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farenhajt View Post
In my opinion, in order to be mentally tough, you must have faith in your general play: "I have the tools and weapons, I just have to keep my focus, go unruined until the opportunity comes, and then seize it." And I don't think Nadal has faith in his fastcourt play (not yet, at least), so he often appears mentally weak, which in general case he isn't.
I agree. Some people just act if it's independent of the surface you play on. That's just not true.
rwn is offline  
post #10 of 102 (permalink) Old 09-14-2007, 12:12 PM
Registered User
 
Kalliopeia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Age: 45
Posts: 1,396
                     
Re: Is Nadal really mentally as tough as people claim?

While I do think Rafa is prone to confidence issues on hard courts, I also think that the Ferrer match shouldn't be included in that. He literally collapsed at one point in that one. That wasn't mental.

RAFAEL NADAL
"There are some people who say he can only play on clay, and they don't have any idea of tennis."--Roger Federer

Guillermo Cañas | Marat Safin | Carlos Moya | Fernando Verdasco

David Ferrer | Marcos Baghdatis | Juan Monaco | Fernando Gonzalez
Kalliopeia is offline  
post #11 of 102 (permalink) Old 09-14-2007, 12:13 PM
Registered User
 
stebs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Age: 43
Posts: 11,530
                     
Re: Is Nadal really mentally as tough as people claim?

I have said it over and over again and no-one ever listens and I agree with you.

Confidence is a huge factor in mental toughness and particularly with Nadal it is the case. I mean the same is true when you see Federer mentally stronger than Nadal at Wimbledon and yet at RG he is as tough as Calleri.

On clay Nadal controls his opponents on big points and even if they control him he comes up with shots almost on cue and that is just unbeliavable and heartbreaking for the opponent but it shows how tough he is mentally and all but then when we get to the hardcourts things change.

On HC when things get tough Nadal gets super-defensive and it is not a one off it is a very consistent theme and even in matches where he won a tight one that is how he did it. Watch the final games of any tight HC match and Nadal is scrambling around all over the place rather than being the aggressor.

Basically he asks the question of his opponent "do you have the balls to go through with this and hit big shots to win the match?"

If his opponent can do it then they will do it but frankly I don't think Nadal's tactic is bad. It means he can be outplayed but at the same time he forces opponents to hit huge shots when they are very nervous and there are a majority of players on tour for whom that is very, very difficult.

Champions deserve whatever they win playing within the laws of the game
stebs is offline  
post #12 of 102 (permalink) Old 09-14-2007, 12:15 PM
Registered User
 
stebs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Age: 43
Posts: 11,530
                     
Re: Is Nadal really mentally as tough as people claim?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalliopeia View Post
While I do think Rafa is prone to confidence issues on hard courts, I also think that the Ferrer match shouldn't be included in that. He literally collapsed at one point in that one. That wasn't mental.
As I just stated in my previous post it isn't the same style of lack of confidence. It's not like when Paulo is mentally weak and hits the net 4 times in a row it is just a tendancy to be very defensive when things matter and yes that happened in the Ferrer match and no Nadal wasn't heavily effected in that match by injury.

Painwise it was clear he was feeling it and that hurts and I wish he was fully well but in terms of tennis it was a matter of playing through pain and if he was really hurting so much it effected his play he couldn't have played those tactics where he ran 10 foot behind the baseline and tried to grind out a win.

Champions deserve whatever they win playing within the laws of the game
stebs is offline  
post #13 of 102 (permalink) Old 09-14-2007, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
country flag rwn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 612
                     
Re: Is Nadal really mentally as tough as people claim?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stebs View Post
I have said it over and over again and no-one ever listens and I agree with you.

Confidence is a huge factor in mental toughness and particularly with Nadal it is the case. I mean the same is true when you see Federer mentally stronger than Nadal at Wimbledon and yet at RG he is as tough as Calleri.

On clay Nadal controls his opponents on big points and even if they control him he comes up with shots almost on cue and that is just unbeliavable and heartbreaking for the opponent but it shows how tough he is mentally and all but then when we get to the hardcourts things change.

On HC when things get tough Nadal gets super-defensive and it is not a one off it is a very consistent theme and even in matches where he won a tight one that is how he did it. Watch the final games of any tight HC match and Nadal is scrambling around all over the place rather than being the aggressor.

Basically he asks the question of his opponent "do you have the balls to go through with this and hit big shots to win the match?"

If his opponent can do it then they will do it but frankly I don't think Nadal's tactic is bad. It means he can be outplayed but at the same time he forces opponents to hit huge shots when they are very nervous and there are a majority of players on tour for whom that is very, very difficult.
I agree. It's strange that Wilander never made comments about balls after a hardcourt performance from Nadal.
rwn is offline  
post #14 of 102 (permalink) Old 09-14-2007, 12:28 PM
Can't be bothered anymore
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Age: 41
Posts: 22,996
                     
Re: Is Nadal really mentally as tough as people claim?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwn View Post
It's strange that Wilander never made comments about balls after a hardcourt performance from Nadal.
Maybe because Mats isn't as confident in Nadals hardcourt abilites as in Rogers on clay.
Eden is offline  
post #15 of 102 (permalink) Old 09-14-2007, 12:29 PM Thread Starter
country flag rwn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 612
                     
Re: Is Nadal really mentally as tough as people claim?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stebs View Post
As I just stated in my previous post it isn't the same style of lack of confidence. It's not like when Paulo is mentally weak and hits the net 4 times in a row it is just a tendancy to be very defensive when things matter and yes that happened in the Ferrer match and no Nadal wasn't heavily effected in that match by injury.

Painwise it was clear he was feeling it and that hurts and I wish he was fully well but in terms of tennis it was a matter of playing through pain and if he was really hurting so much it effected his play he couldn't have played those tactics where he ran 10 foot behind the baseline and tried to grind out a win.
Exactly. If Nadal had been as injured as some people claim, he would have shortened the points as much as possible. He didn't.
rwn is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the MensTennisForums.com forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome