Federer has ALREADY surpassed Sampras - MensTennisForums.com
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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 12:43 PM Thread Starter
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Federer has ALREADY surpassed Sampras

Talent and greatness in sports are not unrelated but neither are they one and the same. Greatness denotes accomplishment. In my view Michael Jordan was not the most talented basketball player ever, but undoubtedly the greatest. Similarly, Sampras had less all-around ability than Agassi, MacEnroe, and, well, even Martina Hingis, but in terms of greatness, he exceeds them and all but a few players in history. Empirically, I find it hard to accept that anyone honestly doesn't see that Roger is easily more talented than Pete and everyone else in the last thirty-five years (I never saw Laver play). But, to the point, talent aside, I would argue that Fed's resume already is ahead of Sampras'.

Sampras never won more than two Slams in a single year. Federer has already won three in one year and done it three times. The closest Sampras came to the career Slam was a single semifinal appearance where his conqueror was Yevgeny Kafelnikov, who I don't think anybody would qualify as a tennis great. Federer, on the other hand has two finals appearances and a semifinal to his credit, and the man who stopped him from winning those three French Opens is probably the best clay-courter ever. I love Agassi to death and cherish the fact that he won every major, but he wouldn't have been able to sniff that feat if he played in the era of Rafael Nadal.

Additionally, when determining the best player of all time, shouldn't that player be the best overall player, taking every surface into account? If we were to compare where Roger and Pete rank on the three primary surfaces in tennis during their respective careers it would look something like this:

Federer: grass-- 1st/ hardcourt-- 1st/ clay: 2nd

Sampras: grass-- 1st/ hardcourt-- 1st or 2nd (either Agassi or he)/ clay-- 99999999e

You know that number that appears on your calculator when the total gets too high? I mean you could pull a random janitor off the streets of Barcelona, and he could beat Pete on red dirt....

There are other ways to look at this too. Pete's 14 Slams spanned the 13 years between 1990 and 2002. Roger's 12 have come in the five years between 2003 and 2007. Pete retired at 31 with 64 total titles. At 26, Roger has 51. Roger has made it to ten straight GS finals. Pete never could make more than three straight. And the list goes on....

The major detraction that people hurl at Federer is that he plays in an era of less competition. Gee, I wonder if that's because he keeps winning everything? How many more Slams would Nadal, Hewitt, Safin, and especially Roddick have if Roger wasn't around? Or another way to put this is that I guess Pete wasn't good enough to keep the players of his day from winning more majors.
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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 12:46 PM
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Re: Federer has ALREADY surpassed Sampras

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Originally Posted by wraith View Post
Additionally, when determining the best player of all time, shouldn't that player be the best overall player, taking every surface into account?
Yes.

Agassi > Federer.
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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 01:21 PM
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Re: Federer has ALREADY surpassed Sampras

I'm sure there plenty of UN-type posts like these, but why can't we just admit they're the two best players since Borg? I didn't read your post, so maybe I missed something, but everyone's in this rush to just completely overlook Sampras, and it's kind of unsettling.

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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 01:29 PM
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Re: Federer has ALREADY surpassed Sampras

Quote:
Originally Posted by wraith View Post

Additionally, when determining the best player of all time, shouldn't that player be the best overall player, taking every surface into account? If we were to compare where Roger and Pete rank on the three primary surfaces in tennis during their respective careers it would look something like this:

Federer: grass-- 1st/ hardcourt-- 1st/ clay: 2nd

Sampras: grass-- 1st/ hardcourt-- 1st or 2nd (either Agassi or he)/ clay-- 99999999e

You know that number that appears on your calculator when the total gets too high? I mean you could pull a random janitor off the streets of Barcelona, and he could beat Pete on red dirt....
^ here you get a new and interesting sight

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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 02:11 PM
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Re: Federer has ALREADY surpassed Sampras

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Originally Posted by wraith View Post
Sampras had less all-around ability than Agassi, MacEnroe, and, well, even Martina Hingis
:retard:
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Originally Posted by adeegee!. View Post
Yes.

Agassi > Federer.
If both met on clay Federer would hand a peak Agassi a serious beat down.

It's only fitting that Agassi went down as both Sampras' and Federer's bitch.

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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 02:12 PM
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Re: Federer has ALREADY surpassed Sampras

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Originally Posted by adeegee!. View Post
Yes.

Agassi > Federer.


Predictable coming from scrammbled egg face.

Wait till Roger Federer takes the French Open from your Nadal, then you will struggle to search for stupid excuses of why Roger Federer is not the best player ever.
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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 02:53 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Federer has ALREADY surpassed Sampras

Quote:
Originally Posted by wraith View Post
Talent and greatness in sports are not unrelated but neither are they one and the same. Greatness denotes accomplishment.
Very interesting read. And as much as I want to agree with you, most people will not be satisfied until Federer wins 15 Slams. He needs to pass Sampras in every respect including the total number of Slams won.

That said, I suspect that Sampras himself might agree with you. A title that he consciously chased -- the Greatest Player Ever -- seems about to be usurped by an upstart Swiss. All of a sudden we see Sampras giving up his babymaking and coming out of retirement. Is he trying to share some of Roger's spotlight (their coming up exhibition match for example)? He wouldn't be feeling threatened would he? I wouldn't at all blame him if he were.

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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 03:06 PM
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Re: Federer has ALREADY surpassed Sampras

Interresting read , though not sure I agree on everything...
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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 04:18 PM
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Re: Federer has ALREADY surpassed Sampras

Like it or not, JesusFed is already better than Sampras. But as Pete, not winning Roland garros will put a little * next to his GOAT throne.

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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 04:35 PM
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Re: Federer has ALREADY surpassed Sampras

Sampras is such a conceited asshole, and it must be making him crazy to watch his record disappear within years of his retirement. I remember him talking about how important it was to him to break Laver's record and be "the best," while Steffi Graf was interviewed she said she could not have cared less that she cam within 1 slam of breaking Margaret Court's record. It was her carer as a whole that she was proud of.
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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 04:38 PM
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Re: Federer has ALREADY surpassed Sampras

Yes, He does. But you got to know where Sampras played with Andre, Jim, Michael Chang and Tens of great players during 1990s'

Roger got only Nadal, NOW Djok is the guy who can put pressure on him.

GO Roger Federer, Nick Kyrgios, Borna Coric, Vasek Pospisil, Kei Nishikori, , Milos Raonic, Jerzy Janowicz, Grigor Dimitrov, Dennis Novikov and Bernard Tomic and Mikael Ymer

Thiem will be No 1 by Dec 2017
Nick Kyrgios will be No 1 by Sep 2018
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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 04:46 PM
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Re: Federer has ALREADY surpassed Sampras

As much as I would like see somebody take him down, Roger is better than Sampras ever was. Anybody that played like Sampras did on clay, does not deserve to even be mentioned as the GOAT.
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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 05:14 PM
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Re: Federer has ALREADY surpassed Sampras

I think that it's as simple as asking yourself this question:

"What could Sampras do as a tennis player that Roger Federer cannot?"

Throw out the statistics. Watch both guys play and then decide.
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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 05:23 PM
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Re: Federer has ALREADY surpassed Sampras

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Originally Posted by Burrow View Post


Predictable coming from scrammbled egg face.

Wait till Roger Federer takes the French Open from your Nadal, then you will struggle to search for stupid excuses of why Roger Federer is not the best player ever.
When Roger handed Andy a beatdown at this year's AO all he could say was ''Poor first serve percentage from Fed.'' He can never admit that Roger is doing well or is a great player. And he had the nerve to criticize someone for not respecting Andy because he is a GS champion. But Roger won 12 GSs and he doesn't seem to respect him at all.

Wimbledon Upsets:
Safin def. Djokovic 6-4, 7-6, 6-2
Schuettler def. Blake 6-3, 6-7, 4-6, 6-4, 6-4
Kudryavtseva def. Sharapova 6-2, 6-4
Tipsarevic def. Roddick 6-7, 7-5, 6-4, 7-6
Dancevic def. Nalbandian 6-4, 6-2, 6-4
Zheng def. Ivanovic 6-1, 6-4
Tanasugarn def. Jankovic 6-3, 6-2
Radwanska def. Kuznetsova 6-4, 1-6, 7-5
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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 09-12-2007, 05:29 PM
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Re: Federer has ALREADY surpassed Sampras

Isn't that because he is an idiot?
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