Roger the mental weakling: 13-2 tiebreak record in grand slam finals! - MensTennisForums.com

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post #1 of 184 (permalink) Old 09-10-2007, 07:39 AM Thread Starter
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Roger the mental weakling: 13-2 tiebreak record in grand slam finals!

The U.S. Open final got me thinking about Roger Federer and tiebreaks he has played in grand slam finals. I just realized he has won 13 such tiebreaks and lost only two- both of those to Nadal (1 in 06 RG final and one 06 Wimby final)

There always seem to be doubts about Roger's mental strength and character- and yet tiebreaks in a slam final are the ultimate indication of mental strength and overcoming enormous pressure situations. More often than not he comes through them with flying colours.

Many of the tiebreaks he did win were pivotal to the outcome of the match- two of those in particular where he was at 1 set all and winning a third set tiebreak gave him the momentum: against Roddick 2004 Wimbledon and against Agassi 2005 USO.

Strangely enough before 2007 the only slam final in which he had to play 2 tiebreaks was in Wimbledon 2003 against Philippoussiss and now he has done the same against Nadal and Djokovic this year in the Wimbledon and US Open finals respectively. Both these players are extremely tough nuts to crack in the mental department.
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post #2 of 184 (permalink) Old 09-10-2007, 09:25 AM
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Re: Roger the mental weakling: 13-2 tiebreak record in grand slam finals!

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Originally Posted by RonE View Post
The U.S. Open final got me thinking about Roger Federer and tiebreaks he has played in grand slam finals. I just realized he has won 13 such tiebreaks and lost only two- both of those to Nadal (1 in 06 RG final and one 06 Wimby final)

There always seem to be doubts about Roger's mental strength and character- and yet tiebreaks in a slam final are the ultimate indication of mental strength and overcoming enormous pressure situations. More often than not he comes through them with flying colours.

Many of the tiebreaks he did win were pivotal to the outcome of the match- two of those in particular where he was at 1 set all and winning a third set tiebreak gave him the momentum: against Roddick 2004 Wimbledon and against Agassi 2005 USO.

Strangely enough before 2007 the only slam final in which he had to play 2 tiebreaks was in Wimbledon 2003 against Philippoussiss and now he has done the same against Nadal and Djokovic this year in the Wimbledon and US Open finals respectively. Both these players are extremely tough nuts to crack in the mental department.
Oh RonE that's the most intelligent observation i read today..something fedhaters will gloss over when talking about the spartan spirit bullshit
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post #3 of 184 (permalink) Old 09-10-2007, 11:41 AM
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Re: Roger the mental weakling: 13-2 tiebreak record in grand slam finals!

good statement, but haters will still keep whining. It's sad when someone has no brain
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post #4 of 184 (permalink) Old 09-10-2007, 11:42 AM
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Re: Roger the mental weakling: 13-2 tiebreak record in grand slam finals!

Time to win RG.

On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

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Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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post #5 of 184 (permalink) Old 09-10-2007, 11:46 AM
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Re: Roger the mental weakling: 13-2 tiebreak record in grand slam finals!

You are completely right RonE. This year Federer proved himself to be very strong in difficult situations. 'Spartans' crumbled more than him
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post #6 of 184 (permalink) Old 09-10-2007, 11:47 AM
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Re: Roger the mental weakling: 13-2 tiebreak record in grand slam finals!

Good point RonE, but weren't one of the many Fed fans that were doubting he could win.

On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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post #7 of 184 (permalink) Old 09-10-2007, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Roger the mental weakling: 13-2 tiebreak record in grand slam finals!

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Originally Posted by YayoMassa skadad View Post
Good point RonE, but weren't one of the many Fed fans that were doubting he could win.
Guilty as charged. Which is why I was even more flabbergasted when I saw he had won two tiebreaks off McNoleo against whom he had a losing record in tiebreaks going into the match. And then I thought about the tiebreaks he played in other slam finals.
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post #8 of 184 (permalink) Old 09-10-2007, 11:52 AM
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Re: Roger the mental weakling: 13-2 tiebreak record in grand slam finals!

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Time to win RG.
Do you really believe Roger didn't win RG just because he had no balls (as you said once, unless my memory is playing tricks with me)?

I thought the matchup issues with Nadal were the primary reason, in fact. Lack of balls comes as a distant second.

Right now I don't see what Fed should do to beat Nadal on clay - except to hope Rafa to have a bad day like in Hamburg.

...
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post #9 of 184 (permalink) Old 09-10-2007, 11:52 AM
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Re: Roger the mental weakling: 13-2 tiebreak record in grand slam finals!

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Originally Posted by RonE View Post
Guilty as charged. Which is why I was even more flabbergasted when I saw he had won two tiebreaks off McNoleo against whom he had a losing record in tiebreaks going into the match. And then I thought about the tiebreaks he played in other slam finals.
We all make bad judgments calls now and then, but I am waiting for the days he shows balls at RG, but he has shown what he can do everywhere else.

On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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post #10 of 184 (permalink) Old 09-10-2007, 11:55 AM
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Re: Roger the mental weakling: 13-2 tiebreak record in grand slam finals!

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Originally Posted by Apemant View Post
Do you really believe Roger didn't win RG just because he had no balls (as you said once, unless my memory is playing tricks with me)?

I thought the matchup issues with Nadal were the primary reason, in fact. Lack of balls comes as a distant second.

Right now I don't see what Fed should do to beat Nadal on clay - except to hope Rafa to have a bad day like in Hamburg.
If you are that naive to believe it was only cause he lacked balls, then I am very disappointed. Yes, he lacked them in that particular match. See people love the praise, but don't want to take the criticism when it was deserved.

He is not going to beat Nadal just from the baseline, but even if it's poor match up, he lacked balls. Tell me when Nadal has had to play well at RG to beat Federer. If he has, then Ljubo and Davydenko are world leaders in hair growth.

On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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post #11 of 184 (permalink) Old 09-10-2007, 12:30 PM
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Re: Roger the mental weakling: 13-2 tiebreak record in grand slam finals!

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Originally Posted by YayoMassa skadad View Post
If you are that naive to believe it was only cause he lacked balls, then I am very disappointed.
Eh? I asked if YOU believed that. Of course I don't, myself. I mean, Nadal is a bad matchup for him in general, let alone on Nadal's favourite surface.


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Originally Posted by YayoMassa skadad View Post
Yes, he lacked them in that particular match. See people love the praise, but don't want to take the criticism when it was deserved.
Some people, yes, but I'm not among them. Criticism is okay, it's just that I'm trying to find the balance between objective criticism and talking out of my disappointment alone. (What you call 'knee-jerk reaction' )


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Originally Posted by YayoMassa skadad View Post
He is not going to beat Nadal just from the baseline, but even if it's poor match up, he lacked balls. Tell me when Nadal has had to play well at RG to beat Federer. If he has, then Ljubo and Davydenko are world leaders in hair growth.
True, Nadal didn't need his top game to beat Federer @RG. But, that's only half of the story. Notice how many people simply don't believe they can beat Federer? Small wonder, knowing how many times he defeated them, even if on the verge of defeat or playing poorly. Well, in this particular matchup Federer gets some of his own medicine back. Nadal has beaten him on clay many times, even when Fed played great (Rome '06). So it has to influence Federer quite a lot. You know, getting the feeling that even if he tries harder, Nadal will just raise his game and win nonetheless.

For some reason I still remember that crazy BH winner Nadal pulled off there (RG this year): Federer was in control of the point and had just hit a great FH which flied well above Nadal's shoulders and forced him to move far behind his BH corner. From that position, he executed a monster BH which landed to the opposite corner, like an inch from both lines. And it was like 15-30 on Nadal's serve. Those are the kind of shots that destroy your opponent's spirit...

...
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post #12 of 184 (permalink) Old 09-10-2007, 12:36 PM
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Re: Roger the mental weakling: 13-2 tiebreak record in grand slam finals!

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Eh? I asked if YOU believed that. Of course I don't, myself. I mean, Nadal is a bad matchup for him in general, let alone on Nadal's favourite surface.

Some people, yes, but I'm not among them. Criticism is okay, it's just that I'm trying to find the balance between objective criticism and talking out of my disappointment alone. (What you call 'knee-jerk reaction' )
I have already answered that he lacked them in that match, that is clear, well you are not Allez and that's good enough.

Quote:
True, Nadal didn't need his top game to beat Federer @RG. But, that's only half of the story. Notice how many people simply don't believe they can beat Federer? Small wonder, knowing how many times he defeated them, even if on the verge of defeat or playing poorly. Well, in this particular matchup Federer gets some of his own medicine back. Nadal has beaten him on clay many times, even when Fed played great (Rome '06). So it has to influence Federer quite a lot. You know, getting the feeling that even if he tries harder, Nadal will just raise his game and win nonetheless.
He has to find a solution to get over this hurdle and he won't play ugly to get it done either.

So Nadal has hit great shots against him, that is going to happen. He's virtually beaten before he gets on a claycourt with Nadal, not a good look for the #1 player in the world, number #120 I can understand.

So yes, he lacked balls in that match and I have explained many times why.

On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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post #13 of 184 (permalink) Old 09-10-2007, 12:51 PM
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Re: Roger the mental weakling: 13-2 tiebreak record in grand slam finals!

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Originally Posted by YayoMassa skadad View Post
So yes, he lacked balls in that match and I have explained many times why.
Ok, I see what you mean.

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Originally Posted by YayoMassa skadad View Post
He has to find a solution to get over this hurdle and he won't play ugly to get it done either.
But how do you mean 'play ugly'? Can you elaborate a bit? How do you win ugly against Nadal.

...
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post #14 of 184 (permalink) Old 09-10-2007, 12:56 PM
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Re: Roger the mental weakling: 13-2 tiebreak record in grand slam finals!

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Ok, I see what you mean.

But how do you mean 'play ugly'? Can you elaborate a bit? How do you win ugly against Nadal.
You are starting to sound like these Nadal fans who think it's impossible for him to be beaten on clay.

Davydenko showed in Rome how to get him on the defensive, it wasn't pretty, but it was effective. Federer can't run to the net for the sake of it, but he can't just stay pinned behind the baseline, as he will get pounded. Mix the play up, throw some off paced shit, some high, some low, sneak to the net, but Federer will want to win stylishly.

He doesn't grind out wins on clay, but he has to be prepared to stay out for as long as it takes and not get pissed off if he gets passed.

On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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post #15 of 184 (permalink) Old 09-10-2007, 01:18 PM
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Re: Roger the mental weakling: 13-2 tiebreak record in grand slam finals!

Correct me if I am wrong: but, on clay, it is not as if Nadal just hates when people charges to the net against him. Then I hear: he should slice to Rafa's backhand- slice a high bouncing ball and control it to go down the line, mind you. Or, hit drop shots. Or take the ball early on the backhand.

All those are things Roger should do to defeat Rafa on clay. He knows it. But, again, nobody is wondering why, on the last 2 and half years, only ONE person defeated Nadal on clay?! It is not as if Rafa is losing eventually to guys like Ferrer, Ferrero, Moya on clay, and then Roger just cant do the same ... then I would say: a number one would be able to do that, because this kid might be good, but he inst great on clay.

Did this thought never crossed your minds: maybe it is not Roger that isnt trying to attack, mix up his game. Maybe it is Nadal who is good enough to keep Roger at bay, that keeps pushing him back, left and right. That Rafa's game is so relentless, that eventually even Roger cant keep it up?! All those: slice backhand, chip and charge, drop shot will depend on Rafa dropping not only short balls. And, even then, Rafa is a great retriever and a great counter-puncher. So, even on those occasions when Rafa drops the ball short, he still has the "grinder" game to help him (which is one of the best in the game). So, when Rafa attacks you is tough to grind your way out, because he keeps pushing you to the side and back. And when he gives you a short ball, he goes into full grinder mode, and forces you to make an "UE" (or passes you at the net/ counter-punches) by being one of the best retrievers of the game ...

Solving the Rafa puzzle isnt that easy ... there is few ways to go against him, other than you playing out of your mind. And, due to match-ups, it is extra tough for Roger to play out of his skin against Nadal.

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