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post #58 of (permalink) Old 02-15-2012, 06:46 PM Thread Starter
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Re: French Presidential Elections 2012

Originally Posted by Jimnik View Post
You remind me of certain nostalgic Germans who think Hitler's ideas were good in theory. I'm not even a fan of the EU; I think it's undemocratic, bureaucratic, inefficient and corrupt. But comparing it to a dictatorial regime brought on by force, ruled by terror, plagued with racism and human rights violations... It's not even worth a rational argument.
This first sentence is outrageous. I can't even believe you said that!

All I was referring to is that the French (like every nation state of EU) have to fight for their independence against an external "federator" whose right has pre-eminence and which is as you say undemocratic.

EU is what I call an empire. I can compare it to the IIIrd Reich because it was also an empire. The French also have their share of Empire building (Buonaparte, colonization, Charles the Great, etc.). USSR also was an Empire. Rome was an empire. And so forth and so on.

All these empires have differences, doesn't change the fact that they were empires. I'll always side the nations against empires. So saying that I'm a Nazi while my reasoning just shows otherwise is really outrageous. Sad to read.

Originally Posted by Jimnik View Post
You're so obsessed with France staying out of Iraq that you're ignoring the real benefits of nuclear independence. Western Europe has been at peace for the longest time in history thanks to deterrence.
I'm not ignoring that. And this is however nice to read because it shows how wrong Euro-federalists are when they claim EEC/UE was the main factor of peace in Europe, while WWII ended in 1945 and EEC was created in 1957. M.A.D. is the reason for peace in Europe.

Originally Posted by Jimnik View Post
Roosevelt was not America. He was the most power hungry president the US had ever seen who wanted dictatorial control over his own country and possibly the entire world.
He could not control Wall Street, though. Even after Pearl Harbour, the likes of Sloan and Ford were still in bed with the Nazis.

Originally Posted by Jimnik View Post
The real American citizens risked their lives to support their European allies and then came home to pay heavy taxes to reconstruct Europe. Of course CdG and France were too proud to notice.
Myth building.

European countries had already been rebuilt by 1948. Economic growth started much earlier. Milton Friedman argued that the Marshall Plan did not help boosting Europe's economic growth but on the contrary slowed it down.

And De Gaulle's duty (like every statesman) was to serve France's and the French's interests, not American citizens' interests. And overall he did it quite well.
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