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post #56 of (permalink) Old 02-15-2012, 12:01 AM
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Re: French Presidential Elections 2012

Originally Posted by Echoes View Post
Yes. If it doesn't sound too insane to you, I see supranationality in both cases, which IS a comparable aspect. There has always been Empires, throughout the European history. Hitler already referred to the "Historical year of the great grouping of Europe" (in 1941) You had that year a great exhibition in Paris called "La France européenne" (with the phrase 'Construction de l'Europe' - Europe Building, written on the folder) with the Nazi authorities and Vichy representatives. In this exhibition you had maps showing the broken up Europe of the past democracies and the new united Nazi Europe without borders, where we could have a big common market, etc.

History is only repeating itself.
You remind me of certain nostalgic Germans who think Hitler's ideas were good in theory. I'm not even a fan of the EU; I think it's undemocratic, bureaucratic, inefficient and corrupt. But comparing it to a dictatorial regime brought on by force, ruled by terror, plagued with racism and human rights violations... It's not even worth a rational argument.

You realize that the nuclear independence that General de Gaulle gave France allowed for Villepin's speech at the UN and allowed France to stay out of the Iraqi disaster. Sarkozy would've sent troop to Iraq.

If we are to talk about WWII, then we've got to say everything. For example, that Roosevelt never wished to recognize De Gaulle and would rather negotiate with Darlan who had just refuelled the Afrikakorps and allowed the Luftwaffe to use airports in Syria. Roosevelt had great plans for Europe. He wanted to break my country up and instal a proconsular government in every occupied countries. De Gaulle prevented that.

But most of all, American oil and car industries were in bed with Hitler. It's, for example, now admitted that had Standard Oil not transferred hydrogenation patents and technology to IG Farben there would have been no war.

I think we have no moral debt towards the US. Also culturally, we paid the "debt" by diffusing American films in cinema 3 weeks a month (Blum-Byrnes Agreement).
You're so obsessed with France staying out of Iraq that you're ignoring the real benefits of nuclear independence. Western Europe has been at peace for the longest time in history thanks to deterrence. Now instead of fighting over petty arguments the continent has come together in economic union. Staying out of NATO conflicts in the middle-east is minor in comparison.

Roosevelt was not America. He was the most power hungry president the US had ever seen who wanted dictatorial control over his own country and possibly the entire world. The real American citizens risked their lives to support their European allies and then came home to pay heavy taxes to reconstruct Europe. Of course CdG and France were too proud to notice.
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