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post #48 of (permalink) Old 02-13-2012, 07:38 PM Thread Starter
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Re: French Presidential Elections 2012

Originally Posted by ssin View Post
Echoes, are you French, are you going to vote? we are anonymous here, so no reason not to talk about such things openly. But sorry if I'm too curious.
I'm not French. I'm a Belgian but French-speaking, so I'm quite interested and informed about French politics. I don't think I would vote if I were French (perhaps for Dupont-Aignan if he gets the 500 signatures, and yet). I don't vote in my country.

Originally Posted by ssin View Post
You are right, but it's all about change. It's not Sarkozy's fault (quite a character isn't he, taken straight from a comic book) that times have changed drastically, so much that de Gaulle and Sarkozy seem to come from different planets, and yet both of them are presidents of one country, [I]within one lifetime. Truly amazing, can it be right? No more heroes and there is hardly anything worth of sacrifice (if there ever was such a thing). [B]So much soldier cemeteries and monuments.. for what... I don't know who was/is right, just saying what I see, trying to make something out of it.
De Gaulle was President in peace time: 1958-1969 (Only had to deal with the Algerian War and I'm the first to say he did bad things there).

Soldiers fought WWII for Independance and Freedoms. The Conseil national de la Résistance had a great political programme. But France is no longer independant and no longer free (EU, NATO). Though it's not Greece yet but is bound to be.

Originally Posted by Jimnik
CdG deserves credit for the role he played freeing France in WW2, certainly a great patriot. But unfortunately, much of this attitude spread into the peace time where it didn't belong. He became a little paranoid of foreign influence in France, trying to snub both America and the Soviets. But it's understandable growing up with Americans, British and Germans fighting each other in your own backyard. It simply needs to be kept in context.

Obviously Sarkozy didn't have to lead France out of a German occupation so the situations are totally incomparable. Peace-time leadership doesn't test strength of character in the same way as war leadership. In Britain you have to go back to Churchill to find a leader everyone respected. No-one ever gives credit to peace-time leaders.
Sarkozy had to lead France out of EU occupation, which he didn't do, quite on the contrary. He's a Vichyst/collaborationist.

De Gaulle knew all too well that the US financed the project of a supranational Europe (he constantly talked about the external federator), which is now imposing its views on each member state against their own free will. He was right to get out of Nato internal command. He remained in the alliance only because of the Cold War context. He thought France should completely get out of it when Warzaw Pact disappeared. Of course his successors didn't do that at all. Quite on the contrary they want a CSDP, subordinated to NATO. Had the CSDP existed in 2003, I would have countrymen in the Iraqi mudbath !!

Peace time conflicts ARE the same as war time conflicts.
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