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post #2281 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-20-2013, 11:35 PM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives

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Originally Posted by Mr. Oracle View Post
Hope I don't seem to reduce women to the sum of their body parts but here goes. She is a very attractive woman, and what I'd consider an ideal and realistic body type for a woman to attain. I would describe her as voluptuous in the tradition of marilyn monroe. Not obsessed with having very low body fat, probably not an exercise addict, but not a sloth either. Her hips are breathtaking and feminine. Now that's a woman! Probably has great self esteem and is able to focus on things other than herself.
So women who are thinner than Gong Li have low self esteem and are self obsessed? Wow, this logic is just utterly unassailable.

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post #2282 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-20-2013, 11:41 PM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives

Now that's a woman

Wow! So the curvy ones shouldn't feel ugly. The ones that are not curvy should feel not womanly enough (hence ugly). How would this be an improvement?


Sorry, I've just read the post above mine and saw that I basically repeated what he said.

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Last edited by coluta; 02-20-2013 at 11:47 PM.
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post #2283 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 12:15 AM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives

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Now that's a woman

Wow! So the curvy ones shouldn't feel ugly. The ones that are not curvy should feel not womanly enough (hence ugly). How would this be an improvement?


Sorry, I've just read the post above mine and saw that I basically repeated what he said.
@ Tripwires,

I think my comments may have been misunderstood. I was making a general observation about the western trend to value an almost pre-pubescent kind of aesthetic. I mentioned waifs, who "grace" the covers of western magazines, who look more and more boyish with each passing year. There is clearly a huge market for this so presumably many people approve of this aesthetic.

Funny, I actually thought I was doing you girls a good service by approving of the picture of that voluptuous asian woman so that you wouldn't have to starve yourselves and try to attain an unnatural image. I also did not automatically equate big hips/narrow waist with femininity, but brought attention to the fact that when western women maintain a healthy weight which is not waif like, they are likely to gain that weight on their hips.

I agree, Asian women on average tend to have narrower hips, smaller frames, and that is not necessarily unfeminine since femininity is a cultural construct. My reference to the ideal was directed at western women and their obsession to be very skinny.

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Last edited by Mr. Oracle; 02-21-2013 at 12:33 AM.
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post #2284 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 12:21 AM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives

Verdasco's gal is not child like, she is a woman with somewhat narrow hips by western standards, that's all.

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post #2285 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 12:41 AM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives

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I'm just explaining why some people might react like Gustavo Kuerten and have the feeling that the reason why many people love Asian women, and why he doesn't like them, is that their appeal is often linked to their being "child-like".
To the western eye they may appear child-like, but I think tripwire's point is that in asia, they are perceived as women...I will have to go to see for myself!

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post #2286 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 12:42 AM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives

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@ Tripwires,

I think my comments may have been misunderstood. I was making a general observation about the world-wide trend to value youth and an almost pre-pubescent kind of aesthetic. I mentioned waifs, who "grace" the covers of western magazines, who look more and more boyish with each passing year. There is clearly a huge market for this so presumably many people approve of this aesthetic. From what I've seen, this is the case in most of Asia as well, probably even worse.

Funny, I actually thought I was doing you girls a good service by approving of the picture of that voluptuous asian woman so that you wouldn't have to starve yourselves and try to attain an unnatural image. I also did not automatically equate big hips/narrow waist with femininity, but brought attention to the fact that when a women maintains a healthy weight which is not waif like, she is likely to gain that weight on her waist.

I agree, Asian women on average tend to have narrower hips, smaller frames, and that is not necessarily unfeminine since femininity is a cultural construct. My reference to the ideal was directed at western women and their obsession to be very skinny.
Are you saying that Asian women look like waifs/skinny size 0 runway models? I don't understand why you think the problem of the fashion industry is worse in Asia when it's often Western fashion capitals that set the standards for international fashion.

I get where you're coming from re. the second paragraph, but not everyone who is thin looks like a stick. I don't dispute that the size 0 model look is unnatural, unhealthy, and ugly; but there are healthy-looking thin women in the world as well who are also healthy. It doesn't have to be either voluptuous or stick-thin. I don't starve myself and neither am I stick-thin, but I wouldn't want to have Gong Li's figure as well.

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post #2287 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 12:45 AM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives

The very lovely lucy liu of chinese descent with a figure pleasing to both east and west yeah?


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post #2288 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 12:52 AM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives

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Are you saying that Asian women look like waifs/skinny size 0 runway models? I don't understand why you think the problem of the fashion industry is worse in Asia when it's often Western fashion capitals that set the standards for international fashion.

I get where you're coming from re. the second paragraph, but not everyone who is thin looks like a stick. I don't dispute that the size 0 model look is unnatural, unhealthy, and ugly; but there are healthy-looking thin women in the world as well who are also healthy. It doesn't have to be either voluptuous or stick-thin. I don't starve myself and neither am I stick-thin, but I wouldn't want to have Gong Li's figure as well.
I think you may have quoted my comment as I was editing. My reference to "things being worse in asia" was removed because I felt it was hearsay as you said. I clarified some other things as well (western vs worldwide). Semantics is a bugger.

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post #2289 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 12:56 AM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives

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To the western eye they may appear child-like, but I think tripwire's point is that in asia, they are perceived as women...I will have to go to see for myself!
Yes, but we are not just PERCEIVED as women; we ARE women. My point is that it's extremely offensive to call us child women or whatever phrase it was that she used, for two reasons:

1. When you call someone a child, you are effectively stripping that person of his/her sex appeal because children do not have sex appeal (unless you're a paedophile but let's operate on the assumption that we are all normal people here). Equating Asian women to children therefore implies or even asserts that Asian women have no sex appeal (I do not need to explain why this is offensive); and
2. It also indirectly imputes on us a "child-like sex appeal", which is both wrong and disgusting. It has connotations of paedophilia. Again, I don't need to explain why this is offensive.

As for why it's racist, the comment was targeted at Asian women only, and she backed it up using little but stereotypes and generalisations she picked up from the media - which, as we all know, is always a very good representation of what the normal woman on the street is like.

There is no need to explain why some men like GK here don't find Asian women attractive or why some men find Asian women attractive. It's simply a matter of personal preference. I could explain why I find men with big eyes more attractive than men with small eyes, or why I tend to be attracted to men in a position of authority over me, but who gives a shit? It's a matter of personal preference. There's absolutely no need to go into this pseudo-analysis of the "childlike Asian woman" that is just absolutely ridiculous and serves only to perpetuate stereotypes.

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post #2290 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 01:08 AM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives

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Yes, but we are not just PERCEIVED as women; we ARE women. My point is that it's extremely offensive to call us child women or whatever phrase it was that she used, for two reasons:

1. When you call someone a child, you are effectively stripping that person of his/her sex appeal because children do not have sex appeal (unless you're a paedophile but let's operate on the assumption that we are all normal people here). Equating Asian women to children therefore implies or even asserts that Asian women have no sex appeal (I do not need to explain why this is offensive); and
2. It also indirectly imputes on us a "child-like sex appeal", which is both wrong and disgusting. It has connotations of paedophilia. Again, I don't need to explain why this is offensive.

As for why it's racist, the comment was targeted at Asian women only, and she backed it up using little but stereotypes and generalisations she picked up from the media - which, as we all know, is always a very good representation of what the normal woman on the street is like.

There is no need to explain why some men like GK here don't find Asian women attractive or why some men find Asian women attractive. It's simply a matter of personal preference. I could explain why I find men with big eyes more attractive than men with small eyes, or why I tend to be attracted to men in a position of authority over me, but who gives a shit? It's a matter of personal preference. There's absolutely no need to go into this pseudo-analysis of the "childlike Asian woman" that is just absolutely ridiculous and serves only to perpetuate stereotypes.
I agree with everything you've said. Even using the term child-like is not appropriate. I think we're dealing with the limitations of language here. We try to make a concise description of something (a person) using a single word (simile)- "childlike," without understanding the full repercussions of doing so. I think most people try not to be offensive about it though.

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post #2291 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-21-2013, 06:06 AM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives

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It's not necessarily racist or ignorant. There is a difference between analysing social trends, generalising about them (necessarily), and being racist. Of course, a simple comment like Gustavo Kuerten's can be interpreted as a huge generalization, saying Asian women all look like children, etc... That would be overgeneralizing, sure. But there is a reason why Asian women are perceived this way, and it's not just linked to racism.

Look at Western magazines and the conception of beauty that they market. If that's not a childlike conception of beauty, then I don't know what is. That's mostly true of Japan but from what I saw of Korean magazines, it was pretty much the same. The Japanese vision of erotica, for Westerners, often looks shocking because it almost seems to market paedophilia. The religion of everything "kawai" is definitely linked to the idea of the child-like woman being the sexiest type of woman.
WHAT? that is a Ridiculous and somewhat offensive comment to wrongly label the Japan as a nation full of borderline paedophiles who only think "child like" women are attractive...'The Japanese vision of erotica, looks shocking to Westerners?' what makes you come to that ridiculous conclusion?!



Why has this thread been derailed from from tennis players wife's and girlfriends page into a nonsensical Asia debate and random pictures of Chinese actresses...

Last edited by Hugh Jaas; 02-21-2013 at 06:13 AM.
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post #2292 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-22-2013, 03:16 AM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives

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Why has this thread been derailed from from tennis players wife's and girlfriends page into a nonsensical Asia debate and random pictures of Chinese actresses...
The thread progressed naturally into a debate about what was said about Fiasco's girlfriend and it was hardly nonsensical. I found it more interesting than page after page of dumb portraits and gucci hand bags.

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Federer to Nole: "Amazing year. Amazing tournament. Amazing match. You are THE BEST!"
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post #2293 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-24-2013, 08:49 AM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives


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post #2294 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-25-2013, 09:41 PM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives

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post #2295 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-26-2013, 10:27 AM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives

Did he get married?
He's so much hotter than his brother by the way.

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