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post #2266 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-18-2013, 11:09 AM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives

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Asian women = child women? If that's not outright racist and/or ignorant, I don't know what is. And I'm not one to get offended when it comes to issues relating to race.
It's not necessarily racist or ignorant. There is a difference between analysing social trends, generalising about them (necessarily), and being racist. Of course, a simple comment like Gustavo Kuerten's can be interpreted as a huge generalization, saying Asian women all look like children, etc... That would be overgeneralizing, sure. But there is a reason why Asian women are perceived this way, and it's not just linked to racism.

Look at Western magazines and the conception of beauty that they market. If that's not a childlike conception of beauty, then I don't know what is. That's mostly true of Japan but from what I saw of Korean magazines, it was pretty much the same. The Japanese vision of erotica, for Westerners, often looks shocking because it almost seems to market paedophilia. The religion of everything "kawai" is definitely linked to the idea of the child-like woman being the sexiest type of woman.

That's also becoming true in the West. The aversion for body hair, for instance, is one example of how we tend to eroticize child-like bodies more than "mature" bodies. Other examples include the "lolita" trend, horrors like beauty contests for children, or simply the religion of being "skinny" which tends to bring ideal bodies further away from what is considered a "real" woman's body (that's to say, a body which has all the attributes you link to puberty, bigger breasts, bigger hips, a big waist/hip ratio, etc).
And yes, it's true that in general ("in general" is the key here...), Asian women tend to look younger, be thinner, and have less "curves" than we do. Moreover,they are also encouraged by their culture (at least in Japan) to "act" younger if they want to be sexy. So they often correspond more to the "child-like women are sexier" ideal.

Now, if Verdasco's girlfriend definitely corresponds to that, that's obviously not true of everyone. That's why I posted a picture of Gong Li who is an example of a gorgeous Asian women who has curves and does not look childlike at all.
BTW I'm not saying that liking child-like women is wrong, and liking curvy women is right. I'm just explaining why some people might react like Gustavo Kuerten and have the feeling that the reason why many people love Asian women, and why he doesn't like them, is that their appeal is often linked to their being "child-like".
(Also, I don't think that the appeal of Asian women for Westerners is based exclusively on that, but it is definitely a social trend that exists, it is not just a fantasy based on racist prejudice)

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post #2267 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-19-2013, 03:24 PM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives



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post #2268 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-19-2013, 03:28 PM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives

Pierre is such a ridic dog Is that a scarf?
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post #2269 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-19-2013, 03:52 PM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives

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post #2270 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-19-2013, 04:51 PM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives

^^

both them just heard Federer result v Benne

only time they ever smile is when they are winning
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post #2271 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-19-2013, 05:07 PM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives

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Pierre is such a ridic dog Is that a scarf?
I think that's part of his "sweater"
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post #2272 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-19-2013, 06:44 PM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives

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^^

both them just heard Federer result v Benne

only time they ever smile is when they are winning
This picture was taken by Dusan Vemic in Central Park and as you can see, the date is September 11th 2012 - the day after losing USO final to Murray...

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post #2273 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-19-2013, 07:27 PM
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Lol, he really likes hugging, especially with his girl.
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post #2274 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-20-2013, 12:41 AM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives

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Originally Posted by Sophitia36 View Post
It's not necessarily racist or ignorant. There is a difference between analysing social trends, generalising about them (necessarily), and being racist. Of course, a simple comment like Gustavo Kuerten's can be interpreted as a huge generalization, saying Asian women all look like children, etc... That would be overgeneralizing, sure. But there is a reason why Asian women are perceived this way, and it's not just linked to racism.

Look at Western magazines and the conception of beauty that they market. If that's not a childlike conception of beauty, then I don't know what is. That's mostly true of Japan but from what I saw of Korean magazines, it was pretty much the same. The Japanese vision of erotica, for Westerners, often looks shocking because it almost seems to market paedophilia. The religion of everything "kawai" is definitely linked to the idea of the child-like woman being the sexiest type of woman.

That's also becoming true in the West. The aversion for body hair, for instance, is one example of how we tend to eroticize child-like bodies more than "mature" bodies. Other examples include the "lolita" trend, horrors like beauty contests for children, or simply the religion of being "skinny" which tends to bring ideal bodies further away from what is considered a "real" woman's body (that's to say, a body which has all the attributes you link to puberty, bigger breasts, bigger hips, a big waist/hip ratio, etc).
And yes, it's true that in general ("in general" is the key here...), Asian women tend to look younger, be thinner, and have less "curves" than we do. Moreover,they are also encouraged by their culture (at least in Japan) to "act" younger if they want to be sexy. So they often correspond more to the "child-like women are sexier" ideal.

Now, if Verdasco's girlfriend definitely corresponds to that, that's obviously not true of everyone. That's why I posted a picture of Gong Li who is an example of a gorgeous Asian women who has curves and does not look childlike at all.
BTW I'm not saying that liking child-like women is wrong, and liking curvy women is right. I'm just explaining why some people might react like Gustavo Kuerten and have the feeling that the reason why many people love Asian women, and why he doesn't like them, is that their appeal is often linked to their being "child-like".
(Also, I don't think that the appeal of Asian women for Westerners is based exclusively on that, but it is definitely a social trend that exists, it is not just a fantasy based on racist prejudice)
I really enjoyed reading this. Describing Asian aesthetics, then showing how the trend is being adapted here in the west. Fascinating. I have to agree with everything you've said. This explains why we started off with the waif look a few years back, and now the obsession with youth is getting even more disturbing. I feel bad for women today because the bar is always being raised to ever higher unreasonable heights. Who starts these trends anyway?

This could be an interesting thesis, that's for sure. Great job, don't stop!

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Last edited by Mr. Oracle; 02-20-2013 at 02:38 AM.
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post #2275 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-20-2013, 02:34 AM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives

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Hope I don't seem to reduce women to the sum of their body parts but here goes. She is a very attractive woman, and what I'd consider an ideal and realistic body type for a woman to attain. I would describe her as voluptuous in the tradition of marilyn monroe. Not obsessed with having very low body fat, probably not an exercise addict, but not a sloth either. Her hips are breathtaking and feminine. Now that's a woman! Probably has great self esteem and is able to focus on things other than herself.

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The Golden Era of Novak: Australian Open * Dubai * Indian Wells * Miami * Belgrade * Madrid * Rome * Wimbledon * Montreal * US Open * Abu Dhabi * Australian Open * Miami * Toronto * China * Shanghai * World Tour Finals 2012 * Australian Open 2013 * Dubai * Montecarlo * Beijing * Shanghai * Paris * WTF * Indian Wells * Miami * Rome * WIMBLEDON 2014 * AUSSIE OPEN 2015 * Indian Wells * Miami
Federer to Nole: "Amazing year. Amazing tournament. Amazing match. You are THE BEST!"
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post #2276 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-20-2013, 04:10 PM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives

Off topic,but I see coluta with another Roger quote in the signature.It will be interesting to see what it will look like at the end of the year if she adds one quote per month.

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post #2277 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-20-2013, 04:31 PM
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Haha, I didn't think about this but it's worth a try. Hopefully Roger keeps it up with funny quotes!

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post #2278 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-20-2013, 10:22 PM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophitia36 View Post
It's not necessarily racist or ignorant. There is a difference between analysing social trends, generalising about them (necessarily), and being racist. Of course, a simple comment like Gustavo Kuerten's can be interpreted as a huge generalization, saying Asian women all look like children, etc... That would be overgeneralizing, sure. But there is a reason why Asian women are perceived this way, and it's not just linked to racism.

Look at Western magazines and the conception of beauty that they market. If that's not a childlike conception of beauty, then I don't know what is. That's mostly true of Japan but from what I saw of Korean magazines, it was pretty much the same. The Japanese vision of erotica, for Westerners, often looks shocking because it almost seems to market paedophilia. The religion of everything "kawai" is definitely linked to the idea of the child-like woman being the sexiest type of woman.

That's also becoming true in the West. The aversion for body hair, for instance, is one example of how we tend to eroticize child-like bodies more than "mature" bodies. Other examples include the "lolita" trend, horrors like beauty contests for children, or simply the religion of being "skinny" which tends to bring ideal bodies further away from what is considered a "real" woman's body (that's to say, a body which has all the attributes you link to puberty, bigger breasts, bigger hips, a big waist/hip ratio, etc).
And yes, it's true that in general ("in general" is the key here...), Asian women tend to look younger, be thinner, and have less "curves" than we do. Moreover,they are also encouraged by their culture (at least in Japan) to "act" younger if they want to be sexy. So they often correspond more to the "child-like women are sexier" ideal.

Now, if Verdasco's girlfriend definitely corresponds to that, that's obviously not true of everyone. That's why I posted a picture of Gong Li who is an example of a gorgeous Asian women who has curves and does not look childlike at all.
BTW I'm not saying that liking child-like women is wrong, and liking curvy women is right. I'm just explaining why some people might react like Gustavo Kuerten and have the feeling that the reason why many people love Asian women, and why he doesn't like them, is that their appeal is often linked to their being "child-like".
(Also, I don't think that the appeal of Asian women for Westerners is based exclusively on that, but it is definitely a social trend that exists, it is not just a fantasy based on racist prejudice)
So basically your entire post and "thesis" is based on a few stereotypes you picked up from the media, from which you then made a bunch of generalisations, simultaneously not recognising how your assertion was racist in the first place. Asian women have child-like bodies - really? Have you seen the body of a child? Can you really then say that Verdasco's girlfriend has the body of a child? She's not even that skinny; in fact, I think she has a near-perfect body. You think you have the right conception of what a beautiful woman is but it's clear as daylight to me that you are extremely biased and prejudiced in this regard - as you would understandably be, because you are European and are influenced in a certain way. But don't pretend to know what the rest of the world sees as beautiful because you obviously have no authority on this issue.

I also don't get how it's not crystal clear that it's offensive and racist to equate us Asian women to children. I don't understand how you can't understand this, and therefore I cannot begin to explain why I find it so offensive and racist. I don't care if Gustavo Kuerten doesn't find us attractive; that's entirely his prerogative (obviously), but at least he didn't write an entire thesis attempting to substantiate, based on rubbish generalisations and more stereotypes, what is already a pretty prejudicial point of view.

The fact that you can even claim the existence of a "real" woman's body speaks volume of your innate biases. Like I said, there is nothing wrong with having pre-conceived ideas of what makes a beautiful woman; I am Asian and therefore I think slim = beautiful and I don't understand the general European obsession with big hips. But I'm not about to go around calling Europeans who are bigger sized than me a bunch of whales, for instance, or accuse men who like such women of having a fat fetish. It's therefore extremely difficult for me to see where you get off calling us child-like when it's such a pejorative term especially when it's also associated with paedophilia - which then connotes some sort of wrongness in being attracted to Asian women. Is this not obvious to you?

And this assertion: "Moreover,they are also encouraged by their culture (at least in Japan) to "act" younger if they want to be sexy. So they often correspond more to the "child-like women are sexier" ideal."

Biggest bullshit generalisation I've read in a while. Speaking as an Asian woman, I've NEVER been encouraged to act younger to be sexy. Where the hell do you get these ideas?

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Fed's groundstrokes never were that good to begin with.

Last edited by tripwires; 02-20-2013 at 10:53 PM.
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post #2279 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-20-2013, 10:22 PM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives

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I really enjoyed reading this. Describing Asian aesthetics, then showing how the trend is being adapted here in the west. Fascinating. I have to agree with everything you've said. This explains why we started off with the waif look a few years back, and now the obsession with youth is getting even more disturbing. I feel bad for women today because the bar is always being raised to ever higher unreasonable heights. Who starts these trends anyway?

This could be an interesting thesis, that's for sure. Great job, don't stop!
You think it's a good thing to perpetuate stereotypes and come up with BS generalisations based on those stereotypes? Okay then.

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Originally Posted by Matt01 View Post
Fed's groundstrokes never were that good to begin with.
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post #2280 of 3723 (permalink) Old 02-20-2013, 11:31 PM
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Re: Post Pics of Tennis players with their girlfriends or wives

I agreed with Tripwires. I mean, Sophitia's observation was based on a misconception, I felt.

"If that's not a childlike conception of beauty, then I don't know what is. That's mostly true of Japan but from what I saw of Korean magazines, it was pretty much the same. The Japanese vision of erotica, for Westerners, often looks shocking because it almost seems to market paedophilia. The religion of everything "kawai" is definitely linked to the idea of the child-like woman being the sexiest type of woman."

When westerners look at Asian, they always think they are very young, cos to their standard, a 20ish yr old Asian may look a decade younger than their westerner counterpart, hence Westerners think they look like child. And your assumption based on this Westerner view, suggesting that Asian magazine seems to market pedophilia, because to you the Westerner, those Asian on the covers look child-like. However, Asian really don't see the women on the covers child-like at all. To the Asian's point of view, a 20ish yrs old looks just like a 20ish yrs old, like all the normal 20ish yrs old one will see in a Asian city. An Asian child looks nothing like a 20ish yrs old Asian adult. So it is quite unfair to suggest that they have any tendency to promote anything as offensive as pedophiliac.
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