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post #241 of 276 (permalink) Old 06-12-2015, 01:37 AM
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Re: SI dares to claim: Serena can be compared with Federer in GOAT discussion

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Originally Posted by cozy411 View Post
People have used this excuse to diminish Federer's GS achievements as well considering once Djokovic, Murray and Nadal came into their own he wasn't winning them anymore at the rate he was accustomed to even before he was out of his prime. Who was Graf's rival after the tragic incident that happened to Seles? Who was Court's true rival? Martina and Chris being equal rivals doesn't happen frequently. It's rare to have that.
Exactly ... so if you get beat often, then you have competition but if you dominate great rivals ... then you had no competition. You can't win. Serena played against Henin, Clisjer, Sharapova, Azarenka, Davenport, Capriati, and many others. Are they super great? I don't know. Serena has dominated the majority of them head 2 head and also had trouble against a few like Henin but has still kept on winning.

I am not saying Serena is this unbeatable, undisputed GOAT. But even if she wins 30 slams, people will question here.

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post #242 of 276 (permalink) Old 06-12-2015, 01:43 AM
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The whole "Serena's got no competition" argument is so baseless and stupid. Who the hell are you to measure "competition levels" of different eras? Not even the experts can say that for sure.

Same goes for the "golden era" debate, just pure stupidity and an excuse to justify the hating and fanboying.


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post #243 of 276 (permalink) Old 06-12-2015, 06:27 AM
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Re: SI dares to claim: Serena can be compared with Federer in GOAT discussion

it's not true to say silliams had no competition her whole career. she had great competetion when henin, clijsters, capriati etc. was around and her sister still on top.

but since henin retired and clijsters 2nd career is over, competetion is a joke. opponents all have to much respect and if they're in a winning position against her, they collapse and choke big. i mean... just look at rg this year. silliams winning this tournament was just hilarious. she lost the 1st set 4 (!!!) times, azarenka and bacsinszky were also up a break 2nd set.

silliams playing at 50% and still winning easily just shows what a joke wta is. even without djokovic and dull, federer wouldn't win majors if he doesn't play his best tennis. that's the difference.
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post #244 of 276 (permalink) Old 06-12-2015, 07:28 AM
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Re: SI dares to claim: Serena can be compared with Federer in GOAT discussion

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it's not true to say silliams had no competition her whole career. she had great competetion when henin, clijsters, capriati etc. was around and her sister still on top.

but since henin retired and clijsters 2nd career is over, competetion is a joke. opponents all have to much respect and if they're in a winning position against her, they collapse and choke big. i mean... just look at rg this year. silliams winning this tournament was just hilarious. she lost the 1st set 4 (!!!) times, azarenka and bacsinszky were also up a break 2nd set.

silliams playing at 50% and still winning easily just shows what a joke wta is. even without djokovic and dull, federer wouldn't win majors if he doesn't play his best tennis. that's the difference.
Actually she reminds me of subpar Federer easily getting #1 and two slams in 2009 after Nadal dropped out and everyone else was mugs.

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post #245 of 276 (permalink) Old 06-12-2015, 03:49 PM
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Re: SI dares to claim: Serena can be compared with Federer in GOAT discussion

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Federer does not mind if Serena goes to ATP to play. Many guys will be very very happy to have her as opponent. Even Ferrer will be happy and he could win a GS against her.
Everybody knows that Serena has no chance against men. She won't even beat a top 400 player if she goes to ATP but that's obviously not what this GOAT discussion is all about.
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post #246 of 276 (permalink) Old 06-13-2015, 02:10 AM
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Re: SI dares to claim: Serena can be compared with Federer in GOAT discussion

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That is not true at all. Even Evert admitted Serena is the GOAT.
Evert may believe that, but she's wrong. All of those players were better than Serena. Moody only played in 24 slams, winning 18 of them. Martina N had far more wins on the tour, more finals, and more points. Serena takes too much time off for serious consideration as the best woman of all time. Smith-Court won more slams, Graf won more slams.

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post #247 of 276 (permalink) Old 06-13-2015, 02:13 AM
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Re: SI dares to claim: Serena can be compared with Federer in GOAT discussion

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As for Court's record - no disrespect to her. She was a great champion in her time and one of the best females to ever pick up a racquet. But we're seriously kidding ourselves if we think all of her 11 AO titles are legit.
What's the argument for Serena? She doesn't have the most match wins in the women's game. Her longevity and accomplishments and titles will never come close to touching Martina N's. Serena's argument is slams and nothing else.

Evert has a ridiculous 52! Slam semifinals. Fifty TWO. Serena has just 27!

Martina has 317 slam match wins. Serena's closer here, with 273.

Martina has 167 total titles. Evert, 157. Graf, 107. Serena? A mighty 64 titles.

Martina, 239 finals. Evert, 230. Serena doesn't even have the finals record, that's Davenport, who has 93.

Total matches won? Where's Serena? Top 10? Yep. Ringing in at 7. Martina? 1442, 2x what Serena has. Followed by, (guess who) Evert and Graf. Davenport, Wade, Aranxa, and Conchita all won more matches than Serena.

Does Serena own a surface yet? Nope. Even on hardcourts, Davenport has more wins.

Winning percentage? Smith-Court, natch. Followed by Evert, Graf, Martina. Number 5? Serena.

Surface winning percentage? Clay? Evert, then Graf. Hard? Graf, then Evert, Martina and Serena. Grass? Martina, then Evert.

What about weeks number 1? Graf. Then Martina and Evert.

So, in reality - the Roger Federer of the WTA is Steffi Graf. Weeks at number 1 and the slam record.

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Last edited by JediFed; 06-13-2015 at 02:28 AM.
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post #248 of 276 (permalink) Old 06-13-2015, 03:24 AM
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Re: SI dares to claim: Serena can be compared with Federer in GOAT discussion

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What's the argument for Serena? She doesn't have the most match wins in the women's game. Her longevity and accomplishments and titles will never come close to touching Martina N's. Serena's argument is slams and nothing else.

Evert has a ridiculous 52! Slam semifinals. Fifty TWO. Serena has just 27!

Martina has 317 slam match wins. Serena's closer here, with 273.

Martina has 167 total titles. Evert, 157. Graf, 107. Serena? A mighty 64 titles.

Martina, 239 finals. Evert, 230. Serena doesn't even have the finals record, that's Davenport, who has 93.

Total matches won? Where's Serena? Top 10? Yep. Ringing in at 7. Martina? 1442, 2x what Serena has. Followed by, (guess who) Evert and Graf. Davenport, Wade, Aranxa, and Conchita all won more matches than Serena.

Does Serena own a surface yet? Nope. Even on hardcourts, Davenport has more wins.

Winning percentage? Smith-Court, natch. Followed by Evert, Graf, Martina. Number 5? Serena.

Surface winning percentage? Clay? Evert, then Graf. Hard? Graf, then Evert, Martina and Serena. Grass? Martina, then Evert.

What about weeks number 1? Graf. Then Martina and Evert.

So, in reality - the Roger Federer of the WTA is Steffi Graf. Weeks at number 1 and the slam record.
Can you really compare match wins? Serena never played too much, she played like 10 tournaments a year, whereas the likes of Davenport, Graf, Navratilova and Evert played more each year.

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post #249 of 276 (permalink) Old 06-13-2015, 03:26 AM
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Re: SI dares to claim: Serena can be compared with Federer in GOAT discussion

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Originally Posted by pepita1964 View Post
I am not sure if Serena would like to see Stan,Ferrer,Tsonga ,Monfils even Dolgopolov as opponents. So that is so stupid to compare both of them when they even can not be opponents. Men tennis is way better quality than the junior women tennis.
Its a completely different sport everyone knows it. Actually Women's junior is better than men's junior.

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post #250 of 276 (permalink) Old 06-13-2015, 03:52 AM
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Re: SI dares to claim: Serena can be compared with Federer in GOAT discussion

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What's the argument for Serena? She doesn't have the most match wins in the women's game. Her longevity and accomplishments and titles will never come close to touching Martina N's. Serena's argument is slams and nothing else.

Evert has a ridiculous 52! Slam semifinals. Fifty TWO. Serena has just 27!
This is impressive but quality vs quantity argument can be used here. 52 SFs but only 18 slams wins?? Meanwhile Serena has 27 SFs and has won 20.

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Martina has 317 slam match wins. Serena's closer here, with 273.
Martina wins here BUT you could argue Serena has less wins but more titles. I know which record I would take here.

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Martina has 167 total titles. Evert, 157. Graf, 107. Serena? A mighty 64 titles.

Martina, 239 finals. Evert, 230. Serena doesn't even have the finals record, that's Davenport, who has 93.
Sorry but whose winning 150+ titles anytime soon in this era or any upcoming era? As great and consistent as Roger is he's still behind Martina by 82 titles, 72 behind Evert, and a bit behind Graf, Connors and Lendl. Also, Serena has 67 titles and is not done yet. I expect her to end up around 75-80 titles which isn't bad at all consider the differences in the game the last few decades.

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Total matches won? Where's Serena? Top 10? Yep. Ringing in at 7. Martina? 1442, 2x what Serena has. Followed by, (guess who) Evert and Graf. Davenport, Wade, Aranxa, and Conchita all won more matches than Serena.
Again basically the same argument. Whose winning 1442 matches anytime soon? She's likely to pass Davenport and co. since she the dominant #1 at 715 wins so she'll only be behind Martina, Evert, and Steffi which is fine given context around eras.

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Does Serena own a surface yet? Nope. Even on hardcourts, Davenport has more wins.
Sorry but how does having 12 hardcourt slam wins equate to not owning a surface? To be brutally honest, Davenport just played more tournaments. It's not like her winning % is so far above Serena's to even have merit.

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Winning percentage? Smith-Court, natch. Followed by Evert, Graf, Martina. Number 5? Serena.
This is the one stat where Serena is lacking. But still not too far away.

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Surface winning percentage? Clay? Evert, then Graf. Hard? Graf, then Evert, Martina and Serena. Grass? Martina, then Evert.
Fair enough. But those HC slam wins are pretty impressive if you ask me.

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What about weeks number 1? Graf. Then Martina and Evert.
Serena is at 244 weeks at #1 which is only 16 weeks from Evert's 260 weeks. I'll be shocked if Serena loses the #1 ranking in the next four months to not pass Evert. She also has an outside chance to get to 300 weeks if she keeps the ranking for another year which is very possible. She's right up there with the rest of them in this stat.

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So, in reality - the Roger Federer of the WTA is Steffi Graf. Weeks at number 1 and the slam record.
Actually both of our arguments prove that there's no true one GOAT. Court's, Serena's, Martina's, Moody's, and Evert's records can all be argued against one another. What is clear is that Serena has reached this exclusive club of the greatest of all time female players. She has her own chapter in WTA history just like the others in this club. They transcend women's tennis. They're some of the greatest female athletes ever.

Last edited by cozy411; 06-13-2015 at 03:58 AM.
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post #251 of 276 (permalink) Old 06-13-2015, 05:07 AM
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Re: SI dares to claim: Serena can be compared with Federer in GOAT discussion

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Actually both of our arguments prove that there's no true one GOAT. Court's, Serena's, Martina's, Moody's, and Evert's records can all be argued against one another. What is clear is that Serena has reached this exclusive club of the greatest of all time female players. She has her own chapter in WTA history just like the others in this club. They transcend women's tennis. They're some of the greatest female athletes ever.
No, what is clear is that the GOAT is either Graf, Martina or Evert. Serena's just not in the conversation.

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post #252 of 276 (permalink) Old 06-13-2015, 05:23 AM
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Re: SI dares to claim: Serena can be compared with Federer in GOAT discussion

I don't know why they are doing this in tennis. I don't recall people comparing male and female champions in other sports. I don't recall skiing discussions like "Is Lindsey Vonn greater than Bode Miller" or "is Vreni Schneider greater than Alberto Tomba" or whatever. It just doesn't make sense.

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post #253 of 276 (permalink) Old 06-15-2015, 03:13 PM
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Re: SI dares to claim: Serena can be compared with Federer in GOAT discussion

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That is not true at all. Even Evert admitted Serena is the GOAT. John McEnroe, and many others have said that too. That's no disrespect to other champs. But yeah. She needs to win 24 slams and then she will be the GOAT for women. She won't be compared to Fed. Different game.. comparing apples and oranges
Evert and especially McEnroe want to have some press. They would event comment the weather to achieve this. Their opinions are irrelevant. Besides Evert is aware that most people see her behind Navratilova. She may want to hurt Navratilova with such statements.

I think, that Serena will have difficulties to be really accepted even if she wins 10 more slam titles.

Reasons:
she played much longer than others. Graf for example retired with 29 after being in wimbledon final. Williams is already 33.
Williams doesn't show any real skills on the tennis court apart from her physics. She doesn't play women's tennis, she plays something like the tennis of an untalented man. She has more power than other women obviously, that gives her the edge.
Her physics are obviously doubtful and Williams sisters were always under suspicion.
This would alyways be a topic when looking back on Serenas career. Even Navratilova looks small in comparison.
Williams really benefited from early retirements of her greatest opponents, henin, clijsters etc. Comparable to Seles fading out early. In comparison Evert and Navratilova had a great rivalry for decades.
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post #254 of 276 (permalink) Old 06-15-2015, 03:15 PM
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Re: SI dares to claim: Serena can be compared with Federer in GOAT discussion

lol at anyone trying to ms ake thicomparison between two people who play different sports.
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post #255 of 276 (permalink) Old 06-15-2015, 05:30 PM
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Re: SI dares to claim: Serena can be compared with Federer in GOAT discussion

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Originally Posted by Boris Franz Ecker View Post
Evert and especially McEnroe want to have some press. They would event comment the weather to achieve this. Their opinions are irrelevant. Besides Evert is aware that most people see her behind Navratilova. She may want to hurt Navratilova with such statements.

I think, that Serena will have difficulties to be really accepted even if she wins 10 more slam titles.

Reasons:
she played much longer than others. Graf for example retired with 29 after being in wimbledon final. Williams is already 33.
Williams doesn't show any real skills on the tennis court apart from her physics. She doesn't play women's tennis, she plays something like the tennis of an untalented man. She has more power than other women obviously, that gives her the edge.
Her physics are obviously doubtful and Williams sisters were always under suspicion.
This would alyways be a topic when looking back on Serenas career. Even Navratilova looks small in comparison.
Williams really benefited from early retirements of her greatest opponents, henin, clijsters etc. Comparable to Seles fading out early. In comparison Evert and Navratilova had a great rivalry for decades.

Last edited by cozy411; 06-15-2015 at 05:32 PM.
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