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post #106 of 214 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 11:19 PM
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Re: novak djokovic endorsements potential

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So much bullying going on in here.
It taking me back in time.
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post #107 of 214 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 11:22 PM
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Re: novak djokovic endorsements potential

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It taking me back in time.
Pity you can't just whip out your nokia 3315 to rectify the situation.

Life is an orange and you're just a little pip.

Ol' Rusty Hewitt - Keeping me moist since 1998.

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post #108 of 214 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 11:22 PM
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Re: novak djokovic endorsements potential

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Which he is. First you're saying that the general public matters and not the tennis fans. But now he is not young for a tennis player. Well he absolutely looks and is young for the general public, no?
Yeah but the general public still gauge youth in comparison to sport he is playing. How exactly does it make him stand out when 2 of his main rivals and countless other top players are the same age or younger? Tomic or Dimitrov are the players who would really use the youth card.

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post #109 of 214 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 11:23 PM
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Re: novak djokovic endorsements potential

You're bullying me by falsely accusing me of being a bully :speakers:

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post #110 of 214 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 11:29 PM
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Re: novak djokovic endorsements potential

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I actually agree with all of this despite being a Djokovic fan.

It's a conundrum. I think Yolita has a point about the warrior/gladiator trope, especially given the chest-baring celebrations. I don't know how one would market that though. And I agree that him not being from the US or western Europe is a problem as far as marketability goes (unfortunately).
That would probably be the worst part of his image. It just feeds into the negative stereotypes that people have of Serbians/perhaps Eastern Europeans more generally (though I wouldn't claim to know this because I'm not familiar with the region/its people).

Just speaking for myself, but the first thing that comes to mind when I think of Nole off-court is that he's a comedian. That's the thing that sets him apart the most from Roger and Rafa, both of whom aren't particularly funny (Roger tries hard but sometimes he fails and only tards like myself think it's funny). In that sense, he's not really a Rolex or Mercedes kind of guy; he skews a younger, trendier, more light-hearted crowd that doesn't take things too seriously. Of course, I have no idea if this 'crowd' actually exists, but that's just my impression anyway.

Roger Federer

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post #111 of 214 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 11:29 PM
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Re: novak djokovic endorsements potential

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Pity you can't just whip out your nokia 3315 to rectify the situation.
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Yeah but the general public still gauge youth in comparison to sport he is playing. How exactly does it make him stand out when 2 of his main rivals and countless other top players are the same age or younger? Tomic or Dimitrov are the players who would really use the youth card.
I am getting annoyed, you probably have realized that by now. You're just throwing random stuff at me. And I am too tired for this.

It's like you want me to have said something I never did. I only mentioned him being young as a possible selling point, which it absolutely is, regardless of other players being equally young or younger. I never said it wasn't other player's selling point too.
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post #112 of 214 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 11:30 PM
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Re: novak djokovic endorsements potential

Nadal is trying to transition his brand at the moment. He is getting older, his hair is falling out, his knees mean that he may not be in the game for much longer. If he just sticks with the 'young' image then his endorsements will eventually dry up because someone younger and cooler will eventually come along.

Federer is very lucky in this respect because his 'brand' - timeless class - is not tied to his age or his continued tennis success. In fact, his brand even has the potential to grow even more after he retires by capitalising on nostalgia.

If Djokovic wants to be commercially successful, he needs to fashion himself an image - something that he will be automatically equated with whenever someone sees him. As people have mentioned, I think the whole shirt-ripping thing is a bit of an attempt to build that warrior image. But it's not really something that is obvious in every aspect of his public life and his game so I don't know how successful it will be.

Basically I think his biggest problem is that his career is half over, and until recently he's never tried to come across as anything other than a normal dude. An effective brand requires years of cultivation, which for sports stars means they have to start very early.

I remember reading an article about Michael Jordan and Pete Sampras a while ago. In the 90s they were both handsome, rich, and dominated their respective sports. Both were being touted as arguably the GOATs in their field. Together they were the face of Nike, the same way Federer and Tiger Woods were in the '00s. But Jordan was very image-focused, whereas Sampras was basically just a nice regular guy who was really good at his job.

The result? 'Air Jordan' became a brand, 'Pistol Pete' did not. A decade later, Jordan's name is still selling t-shirts, sneakers and pretty much any other item of basketball merchandise you care to mention. Sampras, on the other hand, has a smaller commercial profile than Boris Becker.

Some players have a knack for marketing themselves, others don't. Djokovic, for all his advantages, seems to fall into the latter category.
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post #113 of 214 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 11:32 PM
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Re: novak djokovic endorsements potential

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I am getting annoyed, you probably have realized that by now. You're just throwing random stuff at me. And I am too tired for this.

It's like you want me to have said something I never did. I only mentioned him being young as a possible selling point, which it absolutely is, regardless of other players being equally young or younger. I never said it wasn't other player's selling point too.
I'm just saying it can't be a selling point because everyone else is also a similar or younger age. It can't be a selling point if it's just on par with everyone else.

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post #114 of 214 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 11:37 PM
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Re: novak djokovic endorsements potential

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And as for "flashy, exciting" tennis: SURELY you don't think that that's Nadal's selling point.
It actually kind of is, and this kind of demonstrates the disconnect between the dedicated tennis watcher and the casual consumer.

You and I look at Nadal and we see loopy shots, a spinny nothing-serve, ultra-defensiveness, grinding wins.

The average consumer looks at Nadal and sees a flamboyant and distinctive lasso forehand, a big physique, and those still photos of him smashing the crap out of a forehand with sweat spraying off him. He LOOKS like power, aggressiveness - excitement.

Perception > reality.
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post #115 of 214 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 11:39 PM
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Re: novak djokovic endorsements potential

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I remember reading an article about Michael Jordan and Pete Sampras a while ago. In the 90s they were both handsome, rich, and dominated their respective sports. Both were being touted as arguably the GOATs in their field. Together they were the face of Nike, the same way Federer and Tiger Woods were in the '00s. But Jordan was very image-focused, whereas Sampras was basically just a nice regular guy who was really good at his job.
Hm... that's a battle Sampras could never win, basketball is almost by default much flashier - who doesn't want to dunk? - and has way more fans/followers, drama, rivalries etc compared to tennis

“There’s so many athletes, tennis players around the world,” he continued, trying to put his life into some kind of perspective, “they want to be the best in what they do. They want to succeed. Many of them, they don’t succeed in the end. I’m fortunate to have this opportunity and succeed.”
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post #116 of 214 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 11:39 PM
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Re: novak djokovic endorsements potential

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It actually kind of is, and this kind of demonstrates the disconnect between the dedicated tennis watcher and the casual consumer.

You and I look at Nadal and we see loopy shots, a spinny nothing-serve, ultra-defensiveness, grinding wins.

The average consumer looks at Nadal and sees a flamboyant and distinctive lasso forehand, a big physique, and those still photos of him smashing the crap out of a forehand with sweat spraying off him. He LOOKS like power, aggressiveness - excitement.

Perception > reality.
Exactly. The casuals love nothing more than his absurd forehand passes from outside the tram lines that no one else besides him can do.

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post #117 of 214 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 11:42 PM
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Re: novak djokovic endorsements potential

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Originally Posted by arm View Post
I am getting annoyed, you probably have realized that by now. You're just throwing random stuff at me. And I am too tired for this.

It's like you want me to have said something I never did. I only mentioned him being young as a possible selling point, which it absolutely is, regardless of other players being equally young or younger. I never said it wasn't other player's selling point too.
Why dont you stop crying you childish selfish little girl

embarrassing.
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post #118 of 214 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 11:42 PM
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Re: novak djokovic endorsements potential

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Originally Posted by Caesar1844 View Post
Nadal is trying to transition his brand at the moment. He is getting older, his hair is falling out, his knees mean that he may not be in the game for much longer. If he just sticks with the 'young' image then his endorsements will eventually dry up because someone younger and cooler will eventually come along.

Federer is very lucky in this respect because his 'brand' - timeless class - is not tied to his age or his continued tennis success. In fact, his brand even has the potential to grow even more after he retires by capitalising on nostalgia.

If Djokovic wants to be commercially successful, he needs to fashion himself an image - something that he will be automatically equated with whenever someone sees him. As people have mentioned, I think the whole shirt-ripping thing is a bit of an attempt to build that warrior image. But it's not really something that is obvious in every aspect of his public life and his game so I don't know how successful it will be.

Basically I think his biggest problem is that his career is half over, and until recently he's never tried to come across as anything other than a normal dude. An effective brand requires years of cultivation, which for sports stars means they have to start very early.

I remember reading an article about Michael Jordan and Pete Sampras a while ago. In the 90s they were both handsome, rich, and dominated their respective sports. Both were being touted as arguably the GOATs in their field. Together they were the face of Nike, the same way Federer and Tiger Woods were in the '00s. But Jordan was very image-focused, whereas Sampras was basically just a nice regular guy who was really good at his job.

The result? 'Air Jordan' became a brand, 'Pistol Pete' did not. A decade later, Jordan's name is still selling t-shirts, sneakers and pretty much any other item of basketball merchandise you care to mention. Sampras, on the other hand, has a smaller commercial profile than Boris Becker.

Some players have a knack for marketing themselves, others don't. Djokovic, for all his advantages, seems to fall into the latter category.
As a fan of Djokovic, a poster may see as a tard instead, I much prefer Djokovic as himself instead of packaging himself to appeal to the vast market, like Mr. Federer and to certain extend Mr. Nadal. Not surprising as I am also a fan of Pistol Pete
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post #119 of 214 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 11:45 PM
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Re: novak djokovic endorsements potential

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Hm... that's a battle Sampras could never win, basketball is almost by default much flashier - who doesn't want to dunk? - and has way more fans/followers, drama, rivalries etc compared to tennis
To an extent I agree, but Sampras still had an enormous profile in the 90s. I'm sure Nike paid Jordan more, but Pete had almost as big a role in their marketing.

If you had told me in 1998 that in 15 years that washed-up has-been Becker would have his own line of racquets and Pete would have pretty much no profile whatsoever, I'd have laughed in your face.
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post #120 of 214 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 11:45 PM
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Re: novak djokovic endorsements potential

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I'm just saying it can't be a selling point because everyone else is also a similar or younger age. It can't be a selling point if it's just on par with everyone else.
For the love of god, obviously being young alone doesn't work. I am young and I am not getting any money for it. But he has 6 GS, a bunch of titles and weeks as #1 that Tomic and Dimitrov do not have. That + the fact that he looks young and rebel is the selling point. A possible one. One that absolutely works for him, although not nearly as well as Rafa's or Roger's selling points do.

And no, not all 25 year old players look young. That is exactly my point.
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