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post #16 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 10:36 PM Thread Starter
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Re: ELO Ratings

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What happened to clay rankings? Suddenly average rating for top-100 is several hundred points higher than anywhere else.
On clay, the favorites tend to win more matches since the serve has less impact. It's a mathematical property of the points system in tennis.

Last edited by amirbachar; 10-26-2012 at 02:32 PM.
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post #17 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-27-2012, 08:34 PM
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Re: ELO Ratings

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On clay, the favorites tend to win more matches since the serve has less impact. It's a mathematical property of the points system in tennis.
Not really. Nadal and Borg has a higher percentage won on clay than anyone else on any court. But they are the only ones. Federer, for instance, has 83,3% won on hardcourt (530-106) and 77,1% won on clay (178-53). Yet his clay score is much higher than his hardcourt score. Something is amiss here.
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post #18 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-27-2012, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
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Re: ELO Ratings

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Not really. Nadal and Borg has a higher percentage won on clay than anyone else on any court. But they are the only ones. Federer, for instance, has 83,3% won on hardcourt (530-106) and 77,1% won on clay (178-53). Yet his clay score is much higher than his hardcourt score. Something is amiss here.
There is no point in comparing Federer's ratings on clay and on hard, as they are on a different scale.
The ratings may only be used to calculate probabilities within the same surface.
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post #19 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-27-2012, 10:41 PM
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Re: ELO Ratings

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There is no point in comparing Federer's ratings on clay and on hard, as they are on a different scale.
The ratings may only be used to calculate probabilities within the same surface.
OK, if you're satisfied then I'm not complaining. I'm only trying to be helpful and probably not very good at it. Just compare your current clay ranking with your all time high one and see if there's not potential for improvement somewhere. There is basically noone currently within 600 points of their PB.
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post #20 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-27-2012, 11:05 PM Thread Starter
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Re: ELO Ratings

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OK, if you're satisfied then I'm not complaining. I'm only trying to be helpful and probably not very good at it. Just compare your current clay ranking with your all time high one and see if there's not potential for improvement somewhere. There is basically noone currently within 600 points of their PB.
First of all, I really appreciate your help.
About the peak ratings, they were calculated using different method. I guess I should update them, because otherwise, there are not a source for compassion... Hopefully I will do that tomorrow.
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post #21 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 05:39 PM
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Re: ELO Ratings

Great Work!
Ever thought of doing the same for indoor/outdoor?

The thing I find really tough to digest in this is Borg at 18 on clay! Moreover, he has almost the same rating as DelPotro
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post #22 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-29-2012, 03:56 PM
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Re: ELO Ratings

How do you treat matches where one of the players retires during the match? And what about matches with walkovers?
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post #23 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-29-2012, 10:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: ELO Ratings

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How do you treat matches where one of the players retires during the match? And what about matches with walkovers?
Every set that has started counts, there for ret. in the middle of a set counts as a loss of the set, and walkovers don't count at all.
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post #24 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-29-2012, 11:06 PM
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Re: ELO Ratings

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Every set that has started counts, there for ret. in the middle of a set counts as a loss of the set, and walkovers don't count at all.
Yeah, my idea exactly the same.
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post #25 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-07-2012, 08:08 AM
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Re: ELO Ratings

I didn't know the ELO system, I've a couple of questions from ignorance ..
What means the date on the right of the score?
Is there any way to use another factor depending on the round and the tournament to be played? Not the sama a 1R of Halle that a Wimbledon final ..

Thanks and great job

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post #26 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-08-2012, 08:52 AM
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Re: ELO Ratings

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Originally Posted by Rafter_forever View Post
I didn't know the ELO system, I've a couple of questions from ignorance ..
What means the date on the right of the score?
Is there any way to use another factor depending on the round and the tournament to be played? Not the sama a 1R of Halle that a Wimbledon final ..

Thanks and great job
I took the liberty of answering this...
Since those are peak rank lists, I suppose that the date is the date when the actual peak rating was achieved by that player.
As for the second question...
Elo rating system is all about head-to-head performance. No pressure factors like tournament size and value, or at which stage of the tournament is a match played are taken into account.

And Elo system is named after its inventor, Arpad Elo, a person, so it is not an acronym.
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post #27 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-08-2012, 09:36 AM
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Re: ELO Ratings

jaja, Yes, the first question I understood then make it..

Second, yes, I know that, but my question is if changing the original system could be made. For example, changing the K factor

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Bernard Tomic Nick Kyrgios Thanasi Kokkinakis


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post #28 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-08-2012, 09:38 AM
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Re: ELO Ratings

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Originally Posted by Rafter_forever View Post
jaja, Yes, the first question I understood then make it..

Second, yes, I know that, but my question is if changing the original system could be made. For example, changing the K factor
Easy. In Chess, where the Elo system originated, there are lots of different Ks. No problem whatsoever, if you want this. OP obviously doesn't.
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post #29 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-08-2012, 03:17 PM
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Re: ELO Ratings

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Originally Posted by Rafter_forever View Post
jaja, Yes, the first question I understood then make it..

Second, yes, I know that, but my question is if changing the original system could be made. For example, changing the K factor
Of course that it is possible, but why, what's the point doing that in Elo system?!
Official ranking system already does that, and this is the other way to measure performance.
And as amirbachar pointed out, this system gives better predictability of head-to-head accounts.
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post #30 of 38 (permalink) Old 11-09-2012, 01:10 AM
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Re: ELO Ratings

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Originally Posted by Litotes View Post
Easy. In Chess, where the Elo system originated, there are lots of different Ks. No problem whatsoever, if you want this. OP obviously doesn't.
Thanks, the issue is that should recalculate everything, but would be cool, there are limits to the value of K?

Quote:
Originally Posted by G.100sic View Post
Of course that it is possible, but why, what's the point doing that in Elo system?!
Official ranking system already does that, and this is the other way to measure performance.
And as amirbachar pointed out, this system gives better predictability of head-to-head accounts.
Easy, I don´t know much about chees, but tennis not is like other sport like boxing for example, because many times, the top players use some tournamentes as preparation for Grand Slam on M1000, and many times they lose matchs that they would not lose in other tournaments..

PATRICK RAFTER

ROGER FEDERER JUAN MARTÍN DEL POTRO

NEW ERA OF TENNIS
Bernard Tomic Nick Kyrgios Thanasi Kokkinakis


Novak Djokovic - Stan Wawrinka - Richard Gasquet - Fabio Fognini - Jerzy Janowicz - Grigor Dimitrov - Benoit Paire - Igor Sijsling - Ivo Karlovic - Lukasz Kubot - Jiri Vesely - Guido Pella - Daniel Evans - Michael Llodra - Rhyne Williams - Others
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