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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 06-25-2010, 05:24 AM Thread Starter
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Matches where the winner had fewer points

Curious and amusing little stat imo.
Blarghman made a list in his great 2009 ATP Stats thread, but naturally it only covers last year's matches. I haven't seen a statistical breakdown of this oddity elsewhere.

Here are excerpts:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blarghman View Post
Winner has fewer points
Code:
Eastbourne R16		Istomin d Querrey	3-6, 7-6(3), 6-4		Q 102-99 I
Eastbourne R16		Tursunov d Bogdanovic	6-7(2), 6-4, 7-6(5) 		B 117-115 T
's-Hertogenbosch QF	Schuettler d Chardy	7-6(7), 3-6, 7-6(11)		C 110-108 S
Wimbledon R128		Devilder d Lapentti	3-6, 6-4, 6-3, 4-6, 7-5		L 163-162 D
Wimbledon R128		Koubek d Roger-Vasselin	7-5, 6-3, 4-6, 3-6, 6-3		R 152-151 K
Wimbledon R128		Bolelli d Koellerer	6-7(3), 2-6, 7-5, 6-4, 6-4	K 163-160 B
Wimbledon R128		K Beck d Lopez		1-6, 7-5, 6-3, 4-6, 10-8	L 166-159 B
Wimbledon R64		Almagro d K Beck	6-4, 7-6(2), 3-6, 3-6, 7-5	B 159-153 A
Wimbledon R32		Ferrero d Gonzalez	4-6, 7-5, 6-4, 4-6, 6-4		G 153-148 F
Wimbledon R32		Haas d Cilic		4-6, 7-6(3), 6-3, 6-7(4), 6-4	C 196-191 H
Wimbledon R32		Sela d Robredo		7-6(8), 7-5, 2-6, 7-5		R 134-129 S
Newport R32		Groth d Mello		7-5, 3-6, 6-3			M 93-91 G
Newport R16		Kim d Brands		4-6, 7-6(5), 6-4		B 118-112 K
Bastad R32		Koellerer d Darcis	1-6, 6-3, 6-4			D 77-72 K
Stuttgart R32		Sidorenko d Munoz-DlN	7-6(3), 1-6, 6-2		M 80-78 S
Stuttgart R32		Berrer d Koubek		0-6, 7-6(3), 7-6(4)		B 111-97 K
Stuttgart R16		Sidorenko d Hernandez	2-6, 6-4, 6-3			H 89-83 S
Indianapolis R32	Istomin d Kim		2-6, 6-4, 6-4			K 98-93 I
Indianapolis R32	Odesnik d Baghdatis	7-6(5), 1-6, 6-4		B 96-88 O
Gstaad R32		Beck d Chiudinelli	4-6, 7-6(7), 6-4		C 113-111 B
Umag R32		Gonzalez d Troicki	6-4, 3-6, 7-6(6)		T 122-116 G
Washington R64		Becker d Ginepri	7-6(3), 6-7(1), 7-6(4)		G 111-109 B
Washington R64		Gulbis d Kim		7-5, 3-6, 6-3			K 91-89 G
Washington R64		Gicquel d Janowicz	7-5, 2-6, 6-4			J 88-86 G
Washington R32		Isner d Tsonga		4-6, 7-6(2), 7-6(4)		T 110-111 I 
Montreal R64		Gonzalez d Raonic	4-6, 7-6(6), 6-4		R 112-107 G
Montreal QF		Tsonga d Federer	7-6(5), 1-6, 7-6(3)		F 103-94 T
Cincinnati R64		Hewitt d Soderling	3-6, 7-6(8), 6-4		S 100-99 H
Cincinnati R64		Isner d Haas		7-6(5), 5-7, 7-6(3)		H 110-106 I
New Haven R64		Ram d Lapentti		7-5, 1-6, 7-6(3) 		L 103-98 R
New Haven R32		Phau d Almagro		2-6, 6-3, 7-5			A 95-94 P
US Open R128		Gonzalez d Beck		2-6, 1-6, 6-1, 6-4, 6-3		B 142-140 G
US Open R128		Troicki d Luczak	6-3, 6-3, 1-6 2-6, 6-1		L 126-123 T
US Open R128		Beck d Korolev		6-3, 6-4, 2-6, 2-6, 6-4		K 146-139 B
US Open R32		Verdasco d Haas		3-6, 7-5, 7-6(8), 1-6, 6-4	H 167-155 V
US Open R32		Isner d Roddick		7-6(3), 6-3, 3-6, 5-7, 7-6(5)	R 162-155 I
Bucharest R32		Koellerer d Volandri	2-6, 7-5, 6-3			V 105-103 K
Bucharest R32		Fognini d Gimeno-Traver	1-6, 6-4, 6-3			G 83-80 F
Metz R32		Rochus d Santoro	0-6, 6-4, 7-6(3)		S 89-79 R
Kuala Lumpur R16	Gonzalez d Bopanna	6-4, 3-6, 6-4			B 79-77 R
Shanghai R64		Berdych d Cilic		7-6(8), 3-6, 6-4		C 106-103 R
Shanghai R32		Schuettler d Vass.-Arg.	6-4, 3-6, 7-6(2)		V 91-90 R
Shanghai R32		Berdych d Safin		3-6, 6-4, 6-4			S 98-96 R 
St. Petersburg F	Stakhovsky d Zeballos	2-6, 7-6(8), 7-6(7)		Z 105-97 S
Basel R32		Isner d Gonzalez	7-6(3), 4-6, 6-4		G 97-96 I
Basel R32		Chiudinelli d Kohlsch.	7-6(5), 3-6, 7-5		K 108-95 C
Basel R16		Korolev d Chardy	2-6, 7-6(8), 7-6(7)		C 60-59 K
Paris R16		Stepanek d Murray	1-6, 6-3, 6-4			M 75-73 S
Paris QF		Monfils d Cilic		3-6, 6-4, 6-4			C 91-90 M
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blarghman View Post
I haven't been tracking this regularly, but because you asked, I looked into it

It's actually a pretty common occurrence, there have been 65 such matches this season. If you'd like a list, I can make one, but I'm a little too lazy too do it unprompted

The biggest blowout that a player lost was Rui Machado losing in Estoril to Oscar Hernandez. Machado won 100 of 189 points (52.91%), but lost the match, 5-7, 6-1, 5-7.

This includes several notable matches (at least, notable to me):

AO R16 - Verdasco d. Murray 2-6, 6-1, 1-6, 6-3, 6-4 (Murray 138-137 Verdasco)

AO F - Nadal d. Federer 7-5, 3-6, 7-6(3), 3-6, 6-2 (Federer 158-153 Nadal)

Miami QF - Del Potro d. Nadal 6-4, 3-6, 7-6(3) (Nadal 101-99 Del Potro)

Madrid SF - Nadal d. Djokovic 3-6, 7-6(5), 7-6(9) (Djokovic 125-120 Nadal)

The pattern in this last one is a common way this happens: one player loses the opening set poorly, then wins the last two much closer.

The single most interesting example is probably Andreev d. Tsonga, IW R32. This was a straight sets win for Igor, 7-5, 6-4, but he won three less points than Tsonga.

Only one player has been involved in more than 3 of these matches this year, Juan Monaco. This includes his win over Murray in Rome, and a very interesting stretch in Buenos Aires: Monaco beat Nalbandian with fewer points in the semis, then lost to Robredo despite winning more points in the final.

Robredo and Florent Serra are the only players with three wins of this type, both are 3-0 in these matches. Robby Ginepri has been less lucky, as he is 0-3 in these circumstances.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blarghman View Post
Stuttgart R32 - Berrer d Koubek 0-6, 7-6(3),7-6(4) (Koubek 111-97 Berrer - the loser won 53.37% of the points)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blarghman View Post
The biggest blowout that a player lost was Rui Machado losing in Estoril to Oscar Hernandez. Machado won 100 of 189 points (52.91%), but lost the match, 5-7, 6-1, 5-7.

The single most interesting example is probably Andreev d. Tsonga, IW R32. This was a straight sets win for Igor, 7-5, 6-4, but he won three less points than Tsonga.
Highlighted are the only matches on the list where the loser won the points count by double-digits. I wonder what's the all-time record.
IINM, theoretically the most possible is 44 (24 + (12-2)*2 ).
For a 0-6, 7-6(5), 7-6(5) match, that would be 24+(24+12+5)*2 = 106 points for the loser, and (24+7)*2 = 62 for the winner, so percentage-wise the loser would have won 106 of 168 points = 63.1%.

The straight sets is the most amusing

Last edited by Archer16; 06-25-2010 at 04:12 PM.
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 06-25-2010, 05:33 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Matches where the winner had fewer points

You may have guess why I was reminded of this - the Isner-Mahut epic, in which the winner won 478 points to the losers' 502.
The -24 differential may be another (obscure) record set in this match, though not in percentage terms (Mahut won 502 of 980 points = 51.22%).

Note: my calculation above for the maximum was for best of 3 with a TB final set
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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 06-25-2010, 01:58 PM
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Re: Matches where the winner had fewer points

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer16 View Post
IINM, theoretically the most possible is 44 (24 + (12-2)*2 ).
I think it's 46.
e.g. a 0-6, 7-6 (5), 7-6 (5) match.
1st Set P1 wins 24 pts (6*4), P2 wins 0
2nd & 3rd Set P1 wins 60 pts (2*6*4+2*5), P2 wins 38 pts (2*6*2+2*7).

In straight sets: 7-6(5), 7-6(5)
22 pts
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Re: Matches where the winner had fewer points

Quote:
Originally Posted by V.H. View Post
I think it's 46.
e.g. a 0-6, 7-6 (5), 7-6 (5) match.
1st Set P1 wins 24 pts (6*4), P2 wins 0
2nd & 3rd Set P1 wins 60 pts (2*6*4+2*5), P2 wins 38 pts (2*6*2+2*7).

In straight sets: 7-6(5), 7-6(5)
22 pts
Of course my calculation was for this exact score (or higher for the TBs), but (2*6*4+2*5) = 58, not 60.
Additional note: the totals for the last two sets are also wrong, because the point total for each game P2 wins is 4-2, not 2-0 (see addition to the OP).

Last edited by Archer16; 06-25-2010 at 04:12 PM.
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-01-2010, 09:53 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Matches where the winner had fewer points

Related content from V.H. titles and runner-ups thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by V.H. View Post
Grand Slam finals in bold
Finals where the runner-up won more games:
Code:
21 - 27	43,8 %  Bill Scanlon def. Vitas Gerulaitis      7-5, 7-6, 1-6, 0-6, 6-4 Zurich WCT 1982
14 - 18	43,8 %  Richard Krajicek def. Michael Chang     0-6, 7-6(3), 7-6(5)     Los Angeles 1993
13 - 16	44,8 %  Nikolay Davydenko def. Rafael Nadal     0-6, 7-6(8), 6-4        Doha 2010
14 - 17	45,2 %  Tomas Smid def. Nick Saviano            7-6, 0-6, 7-5           Sarasota 1978
13 - 15	46,4 %  Michael Chang def. Stefan Edberg        7-5, 0-6, 6-4           ATP Masters Series Cincinnati 1993
14 - 16	46,7 %  Ilie Nastase def. Jimmy Connors         1-6, 6-4, 7-6           Baltimore 1972
14 - 16	46,7 %  Patrick Baur def. Jeff Tarango          6-4, 1-6, 7-6           Seoul 1991
14 - 16	46,7 %  G. Ivanisevic def. Christian Bergstrom  1-6, 7-6(5), 6-4        Adelaide 1992
14 - 16	46,7 %  Mark Philippoussis def. Alex Corretja   7-6(3), 1-6, 6-4        Munich 1997
14 - 16	46,7 %  Patrick Rafter def. Pete Sampras        1-6, 7-6, 6-4           ATP Masters Series Cincinnati 1998
14 - 16	46,7 %  Alex Calatrava def. Sergi Bruguera      7-6(7), 1-6, 6-4        San Marino 2000
14 - 16	46,7 %  James Blake def. Paradorn Srichaphan    1-6, 7-6(5), 6-4        Washington 2002
14 - 16	46,7 %  Paradorn Srichaphan def. T. Johansson   1-6, 7-6(4), 6-4        Nottingham 2004
14 - 16	46,7 %  Wesley Moodie def. Mario Ancic          1-6, 7-6(7), 6-4        Tokyo 2005
14 - 16	46,7 %  Dmitry Tursunov def. Paul-Henri Mathieu 7-6(6), 1-6, 6-4        Metz 2008
22 - 25	46,8 %  Ilie Nastase def. Adriano Panatta       6-3, 3-6, 0-6, 7-6, 6-4 Florence 1973
15 - 17	46,9 %  Pete Sampras def. Cedric Pioline        7-6(5), 1-6, 7-5        Lyon 1993
15 - 17	46,9 %  Adrian Voinea def. Stefan Koubek        1-6, 7-5, 7-6(2)        Bournemouth 1999
15 - 17	46,9 %  Tommy Robredo def. Albert Portas        1-6, 7-5, 7-6(2)        Sopot 2001
23 - 26	46,9 %  Martin Jaite def. Mats Wilander         7-6, 6-4, 4-6, 0-6, 6-4 Barcelona 1987
16 - 18	47,1 %  Vijay Amritraj def. Henri Leconte       7-6, 1-6, 8-6           Bristol 1986
16 - 18	47,1 %  Stefan Edberg def. Michael Chang        7-6, 2-6, 7-6           Los Angeles 1990
16 - 18	47,1 %  Petr Korda def. Younes El Aynaoui       7-6(5), 2-6, 7-6(5)     Doha 1996
16 - 18	47,1 %  Novak Djokovic def. Roger Federer       7-6(2), 2-6, 7-6(2)     ATP Masters Series Canada 2007
16 - 18	47,1 %  Sergiy Stakhovsky def. Horacio Zeballos 2-6, 7-6(8), 7-6(7)     St. Petersburg 2009
28 - 31	47,5 %  Petr Korda def. Michael Stich           2-6 6-4 7-6 2-6 11-9    Grand Slam Cup 1993
20 - 22	47,6 %  Harold Solomon def. Ken Rosewall        6-5, 6-2, 2-6, 0-6, 6-3 Tournament of Champions  WCT 1977
21 - 23	47,7 %  Andre Agassi def. Andrei Medvedev       1-6, 2-6, 6-4, 6-3, 6-4 French Open 1999
22 - 24	47,8 %  Juan Aguilera def. Henrik Sundstrom     6-4, 2-6, 2-6, 6-4, 6-4 Hamburg 1984
24 - 26	48,0 %  Lleyton Hewitt def. Juan Carlos Ferrero 7-5, 7-5, 2-6, 2-6, 6-4 Tennis Masters Cup 2002
24 - 26	48,0 %  Feliciano Lopez def. Guillermo Canas    6-4, 1-6, 7-5, 3-6, 7-5 Vienna 2004
25 - 27	48,1 %  Victor Pecci def. Eric Deblicker        7-5, 7-6, 3-6, 2-6, 6-4 Madrid 1976
26 - 28	48,1 %  Jimmy Connors def. Bjorn Borg           6-4, 1-6, 6-4           Masters 1977
13 - 14	48,1 %  Marat Safin def. Mark Philippoussis     3-6, 7-6, 6-4, 3-6, 7-6 ATP Masters Series Paris 2000
14 - 15	48,3 %  Peter McNamara def. Vitas Gerulaitis    6-4, 1-6, 7-5           Melbourne Indoor 1981
14 - 15	48,3 %  Balazs Taroczy def. Eliot Teltscher     6-3, 1-6, 7-6           Tokyo Outdoor 1981
14 - 15	48,3 %  Paolo Cane def. Kent Carlsson           6-4, 1-6, 7-5           Bordeaux 1986
14 - 15	48,3 %  Juan Carlos Ferrero def. Carlos Moya    6-3, 1-6, 7-6(4)        Hong Kong 2002
14 - 15	48,3 %  Marcel Granollers def. James Blake      6-4, 1-6, 7-5           Houston 2008
15 - 16	48,4 %  Andrew Pattison def. Colin Dibley       2-6, 7-6, 6-4           Laguna Niguel 1977
15 - 16	48,4 %  Brian Gottfried def. Eddie Dibbs        2-6, 6-4, 7-6           Dayton 1978
15 - 16	48,4 %  Mats Wilander def. Yannick Noah         2-6, 7-6, 6-4           Lisbon 1983
15 - 16	48,4 %  Mark Woodforde def. Patrick Kuhnen      7-5, 1-6, 7-5           Adelaide 1989
15 - 16	48,4 %  Brad Gilbert def. Stefan Edberg         6-4, 2-6, 7-6           Cincinnati 1989
15 - 16	48,4 %  Kelly Jones def. Richard Fromberg       6-4, 2-6, 7-6           Singapore 1990
15 - 16	48,4 %  Guy Forget def. Pete Sampras            2-6, 7-6, 6-4           ATP Masters Series Cincinnati 1991
15 - 16	48,4 %  Jacco Eltingh def. Andrei Olhovskiy     7-6, 2-6, 6-4           Kuala Lumpur 1994
15 - 16	48,4 %  Alberto Berasategui def. Alex Corretja  2-6, 7-6(6), 6-4        Palermo 1994
15 - 16	48,4 %  Greg Rusedski def. Vince Spadea         7-6(3), 2-6, 6-4        Newport 2005
16 - 17	48,5 %  Dick Stockton def. Stan Smith           7-5, 2-6, 7-6(6)        San Antonio WCT 1975
16 - 17	48,5 %  Jose Higueras def. Tomas Smid           2-6, 7-6, 7-5           Bournemouth 1983
16 - 17	48,5 %  Jason Stoltenberg def. Chris Woodruff   7-6(4), 2-6, 7-5        Coral Springs 1996
16 - 17	48,5 %  Tommy Robredo def. Juan Monaco          7-5, 2-6, 7-6(5)        Buenos Aires 2009
17 - 18	48,6 %  Arthur Ashe def. Roger Taylor           3-6, 7-6(9), 7-6(2)     Chicago WCT 1973
17 - 18	48,6 %  Jose Luis Clerc def. Victor Pecci       6-4, 1-6, 10-8          Quito 1980
17 - 18	48,6 %  Johan Kriek def. Vitas Gerulaitis       7-6, 3-6, 7-6           Monterrey WCT 1981
17 - 18	48,6 %  Mats Wilander def. Stefan Edberg        3-6, 7-6, 7-6           Cincinnati 1988
17 - 18	48,6 %  Omar Camporese def. Ivan Lendl          3-6, 7-6(4), 7-6(4)     Rotterdam 1991
17 - 18	48,6 %  Andrei Cherkasov def. Jakob Hlasek      7-6(2), 3-6, 7-6(5)     Moscow 1991
17 - 18	48,6 %  Marc Rosset def. Michael Stich          3-6, 7-6(11), 7-6(8)    Halle 1995
17 - 18	48,6 %  Carl-Uwe Steeb def. Daniel Vacek        7-6(5), 3-6, 7-6(6)     Moscow 1995
17 - 18	48,6 %  Gustavo Kuerten def. Marat Safin        3-6, 7-6(2), 7-6(2)     Indianapolis 2000
20 - 21	48,8 %  Jose Luis Clerc def. Guillermo Vilas    6-3, 1-6, 1-6, 6-4, 6-2 Madrid 1980
21 - 22	48,8 %  Ken Rosewall def. Rod Laver             6-4, 1-6, 7-6, 7-6      Dallas 1971
21 - 22	48,8 %  Jonas Svensson def. Amos Mansdorf       1-6, 1-6, 6-2, 6-3, 7-5 Vienna 1987
23 - 24	48,9 %  Clark Graebner def. Cliff Richey        2-6, 7-6, 1-6, 7-6, 6-0 Salisbury 1971
24 - 25	49,0 %  Albert Portas def. Juan Carlos Ferrero  4-6, 6-2, 0-6, 7-6, 7-5 ATP Masters Series Hamburg 2001
24 - 25	49,0 %  Rafael Nadal def. Ivan Ljubicic         3-6, 2-6, 6-3, 6-4, 7-6 ATP Masters Series Madrid 2005
25 - 26	49,0 %  John Newcombe def. Ken Rosewall         5-7, 1-6, 7-5, 6-4, 6-4 Fort Worth WCT 1972
25 - 26	49,0 %  Ivan Lendl def. John McEnroe            3-6, 2-6, 6-4, 7-5, 7-5 French Open 1984
25 - 26	49,0 %  Albert Costa def. Thomas Muster         4-6, 6-4, 7-6, 2-6, 6-4 Kitzbuhel 1995
27 - 28	49,1 %  Mike Estep def. Gene Scott              7-5, 3-6, 7-6, 3-6, 7-5 Merion 1973
28 - 29	49,1 %  Tim Gullikson def. Harold Solomon       2-6, 7-6, 7-6, 6-7, 6-4 Johannesburg 1978
28 - 29	49,1 %  Rafael Nadal def. Roger Federer         6-7, 7-6, 6-4, 2-6, 7-6 ATP Masters Series Rome 2006
29 - 30	49,2 %  Boris Becker def. Jim Courier           6-7, 2-6, 7-6, 7-6, 7-5 Brussels 1992
38 - 39	49,4 %  Roger Federer def. Andy Roddick         5-7 7-6 7-6 3-6 16-14   Wimbledon 2009
These are all finals in which the winner has won fewer games (wins by retirement deliberately omitted), but here we're looking for fewer points (which I'd think would have a correlation of over 90%). Do you have point totals for these?
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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-02-2010, 11:23 AM
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Re: Matches where the winner had fewer points

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer16 View Post
Related content from V.H. titles and runner-ups thread:


These are all finals in which the winner has won fewer games (wins by retirement deliberately omitted), but here we're looking for fewer points (which I'd think would have a correlation of over 90%). Do you have point totals for these?
I don't have match stats. Stats are only available since 1991, but I you want to, you may check all these finals since 1991 on the ATP website
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